First AFF, 255 lbs, what do i need to know...

[Anvilbrother 0]

I don't know how many times I will have to say this... MC-4 by paraflite thread over!

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[kelpdiver 2]

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No DZ in So Cal is going to let a 255# student jump. You clearly live in la-la land. The limit at Elsinore is 225# and at Perris it is 220#. I could look up SD but why bother?

In 2004, Perris had a 220 limit for the standard gear. They had an option for heavier, but it would cost you extra. I made sure I made weight.

Wings is definitely good for higher than the 254lb limit. The canopies are the key here, not the container.

It was never stated, or asked of the OP, what his build is, what his body fat level is like. He could be in great shape or at great risk of injury on landings depending on that answer.

[BIGUN 1,312]

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Sorry, I left a few off the list...

1. MC-4 military rig [Devil]

Rigs:
Vector (v382ish)
Javelin
The "Odyssey" was tested under the FAA TSO category C 23 (d), meaning that it was dropped tested to weights in excess of 300 lbs
Infinity
The Talon FX is being re-certified to the latest TSO C23d standards. It will be rated to 150 kts and 325 lbs.
The Telesis 3.0 adjustable articulated harness configuration has been certified under TSO C23d and is rated at 325 lbs max weight and 150 knots
Can't find the TSO for Wings, Racer or Icon...

Mains:
PD Sabre2 260
PD 300
Falcon 300
ZP Manta 320
F111 Manta 290
Man-O-War 320
Rage 230
Icarus 229
PD Navigator 300
Pulsa 260
Pilot 210

Reserves:
PD 281
Smart 250
Optimum 253
Falcon 300
rMax 268
rMax 288

Feel free to do your homework here

As to DZ altitude density - no argument.

Most of these are not appropriate for an AFF student with an exit weight of 300pds. And I think you would have a hard time finding the exact combination of gear that is left.

Appropriate is an opinion. It's easy to do a , but you don't explain why you struck them.

This is really getting old.
If you guys have a limit or level of comfort that prohibits you from taking an Anvil, then you are entitled to draw lines where needed. I have my own - e.g. anyone under 18 no matter what methodology needs to go elsewhere. But, please don't just keep throwing rocks at the symphony of opportunities to take some at 260# out the door and flame that its not within the TSO, when it is. Move on. Over and out.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[diablopilot 2]

I can add one that I've used on a student. Vector II tandem rig converted to throw out BOC operation.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[tetra316 0]

Appropriate is nothing over 1.1 on an AFF student (at least that seems to be the general idea). However, most jump gear under 1.0.

[pchapman 279]

Bigun, what are your opinions on wingloading for big students?

The issue essentially came up when discussing crossing out items on the equipment list for TSO reasons, vs. other reasons.

Germain's chart only goes to 265 lbs, where a 1.15 loading is the max. allowed for a first timer. IF that is reasonable, then even a 260 canopy is acceptable for a 300 lb exit weight AFF student.

(And as reference, we are talking about 300 lbs exit weight -- that was part of the initial discussion between Bigun and TK.)


You're right that for crossing canopies off the list, one needs to know the reasons given. E.g., the Pilot 210 may be certified to 300+, but an AFF student at 1.4 wing loading doesn't look right. Or the Smart 250 was crossed off the list, yet it is certified to 300, even if recommended weight is lower. The PD-281 is similar, but then you get into the issue of their density altitude rules (part of the TSO or not?).

[Anvilbrother 0]

People get fixated on the magic 1:1 student limit and never going over it for any reason... but we all know 1:1 on your brawny paper towel sized main vs a nav 300 at 1:1 is a BIG difference

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[BIGUN 1,312]

All good points.

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Germain's chart only goes to 265 lbs, where a 1.15 loading is the max. allowed for a first timer. IF that is reasonable, then even a 260 canopy is acceptable for a 300 lb exit weight AFF student.

Quite frankly, I'm going to do my best to keep it at a 1:1 ratio. In some cases, it's a qualitative decision based on canopy flying characteristics (of which the only one on the list I have not jumped is the man-o-war). And, in all cases, the reserve is going to be closest to a 1:1 as it can be. Our region does a lot of Anvils and we have multiple rigs with the Falcon 300, PD 300 and 281r.

As to density, our DZ is 680' and that too should enter into the qualitative decision. Would I take a 260#'er on any type of methodology at 5k MSL... No. Not even S/L or IAD. Not without an MC-4 or modified tandem.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[KermieCorleone 0]

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I'm old school when it comes to training - no excuses, train your students well and keep them safe. That's what I saw at The Farm.

As important as the training is, the DZ you train at is equally important. The planes from The Farm take off at the airport where ASC operates. I was there for an entire week, so I had a chance to see both operations. Every time I saw people jumping at ASC, it was tandems and video staff, and they were landing in a very tight area bordered by buildings, power lines, and trees.

not taking anything away from the Farm (havent had the chance to jump there yet but I most definitely plan on doin so when I get the chance) or getting into the whole Skyride debacle, but the AFFIs at ASC are extremely safety oriented and vigilant in keeping students safe and training them well.

With regards to all the tandems and video staff you saw, I am sure this was because all the fun jumpers were at Skyfest.

And finally, the landing area, it is a smaller landing area compared to the average DZ (I am going by what I have been told by other experienced fun jumpers as I havent had the opportunity to jump at other DZs yet), but this has cultivated/drilled into me proper landing patterns, accuracy and greater proficiency in my canopy flying ...

just saying ...

- Neil

Never make assumptions! That harmless rectangle could be two triangles having sex ...