petition for exemption to the 120 day reserve repack cycle denied

[IanHarrop 41]

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From what I understand reading what this poster said (he quotes someone) not all mini-riser need to be flexed... Smile

Ya, that was more about spinning the rings. From releasing 3-rings, I notice a difference, on the ground anyways, between risers that have been recently flexed and those that haven't. They will still work, but they work a little better when they have been flexed. Either way, the cutaway cables need to be cleaned.

Derek

Well the first part was certainly about spinning the rings but the second part (and full half of the post) was all about flexing.
On the other hand I FULLY agree with you about cleaning cutaway cables and food grade silicone spray is cheap and readily available. No reason to not do it but laziness.

Good thing that RWS has changes its recommendation to every 3 months. Makes me less lazy without me having to do a thing

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Good thing that RWS has changes its recommendation to every 3 months. Makes me less lazy without me having to do a thing Cool

I missed that, link or something?

Derek

[IanHarrop 41]

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Good thing that RWS has changes its recommendation to every 3 months. Makes me less lazy without me having to do a thing Cool

I missed that, link or something?

Derek

From the thread about 3 ring maintenance.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1874167#1874167

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[Hooknswoop 19]

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From the thread about 3 ring maintenance.

It certainly does say that. It also says the flex the 3-rings though.

I'll stick with recommending 30-days between cutaway cable cleanings. Here in CO, they can get dirty that quick. I'm sure other places are like that too. Doesn't hurt to keep them extra clean.

Derek

[IanHarrop 41]

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It certainly does say that. It also says the flex the 3-rings though.

Well as Bill said "not all risers are made with the correct webbings"

"On mini-rings, flexing the webbing was never really necessary. We left it in the generic 3-ring instructions only because not all risers are made with the correct webbings, and it doesn't hurt anyway."

Mine are made of the right stuff so I can be lazy - one of my goals in life

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[Samurai136 0]

There's a few hitches I see in this argument against a longer repack cycle.

Assumes that U.S. Skydivers do follow 120 day repack cycle/ inspection. Naturally, because it is the law and everyone follows the law.

On the other hand we assert that U.S. Skydivers do not follow reccomended monthly gear maintenance.

If people aren't taking care of their gear, it may be possible they are pencil whipping their reserves, as well. In which case, we already live in a world where a harness/ container/ reserve may only see a rigger every 240 days. This presents a big hole in the argument that a 120 day repack cycle catches all the maintenance problems that users neglect.

On the other hand, there may be a connection between the two behaviors. People neglect their gear because there is a 120 day repack cycle. Perhaps if there was a 180-240-360 day repack cycle people would, in response, take better care of their gear.

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[Hooknswoop 19]

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On the other hand, there may be a connection between the two behaviors. People neglect their gear because there is a 120 day repack cycle.

I think this is closer to the truth since I rarely see a rig before it is due for re-pack, regardless of when an issue cropped up.

Derek

[HeatherB 0]

Is the goal to keep things safer for the lowest common denominator? (people who don't take care of their gear at all)

I'm all for 180-day cycles. It seems to work fine in other countries...are Americans that much lazier than skydivers from other countries? Maybe that's the big question, since we know that gear in good shape is fine to go 180 days.

I'd only get a repack once a year if that was allowed. I take good care of my gear. I'm not afraid to ask a rigger about anything I'm not sure about.

If I jumped at Eloy or Perris I'd be concerned about all that dust. Rigs seem to age much faster out there. Z-hills is nice and grassy though.

.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Is the goal to keep things safer for the lowest common denominator? (people who don't take care of their gear at all)

I'm all for 180-day cycles. It seems to work fine in other countries...are Americans that much lazier than skydivers from other countries? Wink Maybe that's the big question, since we know that gear in good shape is fine to go 180 days.

I'd only get a repack once a year if that was allowed. I take good care of my gear. I'm not afraid to ask a rigger about anything I'm not sure about.

If I jumped at Eloy or Perris I'd be concerned about all that dust. Rigs seem to age much faster out there. Z-hills is nice and grassy though.

From what I have seenm people don't take good acer of their gear w/ the 120-re-pack cycle. If there is an issue, they either don't notice or wait till the nest inspection/re-pack to get it looked at.

Gear has gotten better over the years, but people make more jumps in 120-days than they used to also.

A 100-jumps or 180-days, whichever comes first would be cool, but most people wouldn't count the jumps and would just wait till 180-days. How many people make sure they replace their Cypres batteries after 500 jumps or 2 years, whichever comes first? Just ask someone that jumps a lot how many jumps they have on their Cypres batteries.

Derek

[ladyskydiver 0]

I can say that all of my gear is maintained (incl. batteries changed in my Cypress) according to mfg.'s suggestions. Plus, I'm more than willing to ask questions about my gear and get it checked by a rigger if there are any concerns I have about it.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[goose491 0]

I wonder if it wouldn't be a bad idea to poll this forum asking riggers about what they have found during repacks that would have been nice to catch earlier? I'd like to see if there is a big difference between the answers of American riggers vs. riggers from places with a 180 day cycle. What do you guys think? How could it be worded to obtain what we are looking for?

We use a 180 cycle here in Canada. Seasonal jumping though so a lot of us have closet gear for up to half a year.

I have been told that the most wear you put on the canopy is during the packjob.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I have been told that the most wear you put on the canopy is during the packjob.

For reserves? If its not a CRW rig, hell yes :).

[CReWLL 0]

I don't know of anyone that had a reserve taken out of service because of it having too many repacks. If you know anyone, tell them to sell me their "worn out" reserve.

[phoenixlpr 0]

I've seen the lable of the PD-Reserve. There is a form about "X" and "-". How about if you feel it up? Do you have to send back to PD for inspection?

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Do you have to send back to PD for inspection?

Yes, 25 deployments or 40 re-packs.

Derek

[billvon 2,991]

>I don't know of anyone that had a reserve taken out of service
>because of it having too many repacks.

And thus we see the additional risks to skydivers posed by the 120 day repack cycle.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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I don't know of anyone that had a reserve taken out of service
>because of it having too many repacks.

And thus we see the additional risks to skydivers posed by the 120 day repack cycle.

And another example of people not maintianing their gear. I can;t count the number of times people bring me their rig for a re-pack and the Cypres or Cypres batts are expiring before the next re-pack and need maint/replacing and the owner didn't know.

Derek

[GTAVercetti 0]

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I don't know of anyone that had a reserve taken out of service
>because of it having too many repacks.

And thus we see the additional risks to skydivers posed by the 120 day repack cycle.

And another example of people not maintianing their gear. I can;t count the number of times people bring me their rig for a re-pack and the Cypres or Cypres batts are expiring before the next re-pack and need maint/replacing and the owner didn't know.

Derek

I would like to know why 120 days is the rule. Where did it come from? Why do other countries not do it? Why have they found that a longer repack schedule is okay?

Honestly, I don't know the answers to those questions. Not being sarcastic.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[wmw999 2,444]

It was 60 days through the mid-late 70's, probably based on the likelihood of silk rotting (when the standard was started, silk was common). By the late 70's, silk was an antique, and skydivers were numerous enough to really hate paying $5-8 to get their reserves repacked every 60 days.

So they petitioned and doubled it. Why doubled? Probably because it sounded so much better, and, well, $5 was more then than it is now, but it still wasn't all that much. People jumped non-TSO'd gear and did a lot more experimenting on their gear in general; many rules were seen more as guidelines rather than boxes sometimes.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[tombuch 0]

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And another example of people not maintianing their gear. I can;t count the number of times people bring me their rig for a re-pack and the Cypres or Cypres batts are expiring before the next re-pack and need maint/replacing and the owner didn't know.

Derek

Do you list the Cypres inspection and battery change dates on the card for them? I can never remember that stuff on my own, so I add a little tag to the front of the data card that says "batteries due xx/xx, Inspection due xx/xx." That's much easier than looking at the history side of the card and counting months since the last service/change. Of course the owner still needs to take the initiative and actually look at their own data card, but if the due dates are clearly listed it makes that check easier.
.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[ladyskydiver 0]

If gear is maintained appropriately and taken care of, the reserve is repacked and inspected as required, what is the likelyhood of a reserve being taken out of service in the 25 deployments or 40 re-packs?

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[tombuch 0]

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If gear is maintained appropriately and taken care of, the reserve is repacked and inspected as required, what is the likelyhood of a reserve being taken out of service in the 25 deployments or 40 re-packs?

For most people who jump year round, that's about 12-15 years of use. At that point the reserve isn't grounded, it just needs to be returned to the manufacturer for testing. BTW, not all manufacturers require this.
.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[nate_1979 9]

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If gear is maintained appropriately and taken care of, the reserve is repacked and inspected as required, what is the likelyhood of a reserve being taken out of service in the 25 deployments or 40 re-packs?

I think if I get that much use out of my reserve, i'll go ahead and get a new one anyway

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Do you list the Cypres inspection and battery change dates on the card for them? I can never remember that stuff on my own, so I add a little tag to the front of the data card that says "batteries due xx/xx, Inspection due xx/xx." That's much easier than looking at the history side of the card and counting months since the last service/change. Of course the owner still needs to take the initiative and actually look at their own data card, but if the due dates are clearly listed it makes that check easier.

Yep, 2 stickers, "Re-pack Due:" and "Maint Due: / Batts Due:"

Derek

[bob.dino 1]

The Parachutes Australia data-card has a specific place for Cypres info - serial, batt change, & service due dates.