regulator 0 #1 March 26, 2009 Allright back in 2001 I was a telecom engineer and I lost my 70K a year job and I went on unemployment for around a year. I had an expensive apartment so I opted to go without removing taxes from my unemployment checks (bad mistake #1) Then I was unemployed for almost another year and when I started working again I was a contractor and there werent any taxes taken out of my check again (bad mistake #2) Well long story short I didnt file a few years (2) and when I was well back in the work force again I realized I owed the IRS 11 thousand dollars in back taxes. So I reached an installment agreement with the IRS and began making payments. Well after a year of doing this I wanted to check the principle of the debt I still owed to the IRS. It was actually 250 dollars more than when I started. Awesome. So I find out that the money I was paying each month was only for the interrest and If I chose to only pay 185 a month I would be paying it for pretty much the rest of my life because it was only for paying off the interest and that was still accumulating. So my fiancee and myself decided to go take out a loan for 11 thousand dollars and pay the IRS off. Well some jackass in my family said before you go spend all that money you should get a tax lawyer so you can get him to GREATLY reduce your debt with the IRS. (I wish I would've just said screw you I'm paying these assholes off) but no...I listened to them and plopped down 5 thousand to a tax lawyer my sisters husband reccommended (he's a divorce lawyer) So while this process is going on I lost my job. Well this was going to help me but the initial OIC (offer in compromise) was declined. They said oh its ok...we win 95% of our cases in the appeals process. So another 7 months go by and shit I need to find a job and work. So I got a good job a few months back, and started working. Well as it turns out the appeals process took until TODAY almost 18 months later to go to the fricking meeting. So they ( I wasnt there Im at work) My lawyer and the IRS asshole started going over the 750 dollars I pay each month in student loans...oh well that wont count we only count GOVERNMENT student loans. So they decided that even though I was unemployed for 8 months and they screwed around long enough for me to get a job that because theres an extra 185 dollars a month I have after all my bills that this is money I could use to pay off the fucking IRS. So now I spent 5 thousand dollars on a Tax Laywer that didnt do shit. And an extra thousand to offer the IRS for the OIC. Yeah that money is lost too. So I'm sure the lawyer used my 5 grand and spent it on a down payment for his fat ass wife's new cadillac. So if you see any bullshit commercials about JK Harris....we can save you thousands and thousands of dollars in your IRS debt. DONT FUCKING LISTEN!! ITS ALL BULLSHIT!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mazz 0 #2 March 26, 2009 wall of text crits you for 4000 damage. Seriously though, that sucks. That dude deserves a 360 double hurricane thrust kick to the taint.In the Navy, you can't put your hands in your pockets but I was always told not to put my hands in my pockets by people with their hands in their pockets. Kinda funny huh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
knic 0 #3 March 26, 2009 Yea man that is a pretty crappy deal...- Knic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #4 March 27, 2009 Yea tax lawyer's suck! They can not get you a OIC unless you can prove there is no way to pay it back. If own anything of value like a car, boat house you can kiss it bye bye. Or if you have a job making anything above poverty level then forget it. If you have any savings or 401k of any money you have access to forget it. It does not matter how good the lawyer is. Your financial cituation is all that matters to the KGB i mean IRS. Sorry this happened to you man. If you can then get a loan and get the KGB off your back!Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 851 #5 March 27, 2009 I'd be thankful it wasn't a divorce attorney. I'm just sayin'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #6 March 27, 2009 QuoteI was a contractor and there werent any taxes taken out of my check again (bad mistake #2) If someone is paying you as a contractor and you receive a 1099, they're not responsible to take any taxes out of your check. it's your responsibility to make quarterly tax payments. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #7 March 27, 2009 There are attorneys like that out there. Too many. Hint - if you see an attorney running a commercial on television - beware. Hint 2 - get a second opinion. A third is even better. Hint 3 - a laywer 'wins" x percent? "Define 'win'" My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #8 March 27, 2009 No the divorce lawyer was the one that told me to go this this douchebag. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #9 March 27, 2009 QuoteAllright back in 2001 I was a telecom engineer and I lost my 70K a year job and I went on unemployment for around a year. I had an expensive apartment so I opted to go without removing taxes from my unemployment checks (bad mistake #1) Then I was unemployed for almost another year and when I started working again I was a contractor and there werent any taxes taken out of my check again (bad mistake #2) ... What you call bad mistakes are only bad if you do not understand the tax code and investments and go spend that money on expendables. I think that most Americans think that getting a refund check at tax time is a good thing. The best situation is to write Uncle Sam a check for your entire tax liability and give it to him at 11:59 PM on April 15. The longer you can keep your tax dollars, the longer you can earn money from those dollars. If you keep your tax dollars for as long as possible and invest in conservative, income producing instruments you can make money from the tax money before you hand it over to the government. If you pay Uncle Sam upfront and he gives a refund to you, you lose the income that could be made from that money. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #10 March 27, 2009 QuoteSo my fiancee and myself decided to go take out a loan for 11 thousand dollars and pay the IRS off. Well some jackass in my family said before you go spend all that money you should get a tax lawyer so you can get him to GREATLY reduce your debt with the IRS. (I wish I would've just said screw you I'm paying these assholes off) but no...I listened to them and plopped down 5 thousand to a tax lawyer my sisters husband reccommended... My take on this is that you have a strong valid complaint against the lawyer but not so much against the IRS--I think the IRS treated you fairly but the lawyer did not. If you originally owed the IRS 11k and you paid 5k to the lawyer, you'd have to get the IRS debt reduced to GREATLY below 6k to come out GREATLY ahead. Meaning that if the scenario your brother-in-law described actually played out, the lawyer would end up getting substantially more than the IRS. Perhaps the IRS figured--and if so I can't entirely disagree with their conclusion--that if you can afford to pay a lawyer $5k all at once you can afford to pay the IRS in installments. What was wrong with continuing the installment agreement but just making larger payments to actually pay it down rather than letting the balance increase? Also something about your numbers doesn't add up. You say you were paying your installment agreement for a year. The IRS is only supposed to charge one-quarter of one percent a month in penalties on approved installment agreements, which would add up to $330 a year on $11k. $185/month for 12 months would be $2220. And you say the balance actually increased by $250 because of interest. This would have to mean the IRS charged $2220+$250-$330=$2140 in interest--a rate of 20%!!?? I've had installment agreements with the IRS and I know that their interest rates are quite reasonable--well under 10%--certainly nowhere near 20%. The IRS charges interest rates that are often much more reasonable than you'd get from a private loan, although you have to factor in the penalty as well (again, in your case this should have been $330). Something about your numbers isn't adding up. I suspect this lawyer usually deals with much larger unpaid tax debts. Someone with a tax debt at your level who has a job (or a reasonable chance of getting a job soon) is usually expected to work out an installment agreement. Sorry to hear you got screwed by the lawyer but I can sort of see why the IRS responded the way they did. The lawyer, though, should have known how the IRS would respond and should have told you this honestly before taking your money."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #11 March 27, 2009 QuoteSorry to hear you got screwed by the lawyer but I can sort of see why the IRS responded the way they did. The lawyer, though, should have known how the IRS would respond and should have told you this honestly before taking your money. At this point I'd recommend getting a new installment agreement with the IRS and also trying to get your monthly student loan payment reduced for awhile. The IRS is right that they come first in line ahead of a non-government student loans when it comes to paying debts. But you may be able to use this fact for negotiating leverage with the student loan--remind them that if push comes to shove and you can't pay all your bills, the IRS can come in and take everything--leaving not only you but the student loan folks with nothing."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #12 March 27, 2009 General Rule of Thumb for all Things.. Soon as a Lawyer gets involved, EVERYONE is about to get Fucked. Sorry you got screwed by the Lawyer. Always remember that MOST (Not all, But pretty close to it) Lawyers are there to fill their pockets first and foremost. Dealing with the IRS sucks, Dealing with a lawyer is generally worse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #13 March 27, 2009 Thanks for the advice...I appreciate it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #14 March 27, 2009 Quote At this point I'd recommend getting a new installment agreement with the IRS Extremely unlikely. From the perspective of the IRS, they have an agreement with a taxpayer who has failed to file tax returns, failed to pay taxes, reached an agreement to pay interest only and then tried to get out of it. You can't rework an agreement that doesn't pay off the principle of the outstanding amount due. Failing to perform on an interest only installment agreement is a very, very bad thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misternatural 0 #15 March 27, 2009 >No the divorce lawyer was the one that told me to go this this douchebag. Ok here's what you do...Go hire a third lawyer to sue the both of them. Then watch the fuckfest from a safe distance.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #16 March 27, 2009 QuoteExtremely unlikely. From the perspective of the IRS, they have an agreement with a taxpayer who has failed to file tax returns, failed to pay taxes, reached an agreement to pay interest only and then tried to get out of it. You can't rework an agreement that doesn't pay off the principle of the outstanding amount due. Failing to perform on an interest only installment agreement is a very, very bad thing. It may depend on whether regulator has formally defaulted on his installment agreement or not. If he's been continuing to make payments as the OIC is considered, as he should, then the installment agreement should still be in force and he can just continue making payments. Even if he defaulted, he should request reinstatement, with a cover letter explaining that he was unemployed. Essentially the IRS has 10 years after the date the return was filed (which was late in this case) to collect the debt. The 10 year clock stops while certain appeals are considered and then starts again when the appeal is resolved. The IRS should accept the agreement as long as it doesn't jeopardize collection of the tax. So the monthly payment offered should be large enough to ensure payment in full, including further interest and penalties, well before the 10 year clock expires--so that the IRS is assured that they will have options open to them in the event of a further default. Because of the past problems, it may take the IRS awhile to make a decision on a new installment agreement. Begin making the agreed payments even before a decision is made so that things look as favorable as possible when a decision is made. I still don't understand how $185/mo amounts to interest/penalties only on an $11k IRS debt. Was $11k the original tax due which got increased substantially because of late filing/late payment?"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #17 March 27, 2009 No I didnt default on my first installment agreement I was going to pay them off entirely and then my family said I should use a tax lawyer instead of paying the entire 11 grand to the IRS. I wish I would have just paid the IRS and forgot completely about this tax lawyer crap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #18 March 27, 2009 No it was more like 6,500 originally and with penalties and interest it became 11 thousand total. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #19 March 27, 2009 QuoteNo I didnt default on my first installment agreement I was going to pay them off entirely and then my family said I should use a tax lawyer instead of paying the entire 11 grand to the IRS. I wish I would have just paid the IRS and forgot completely about this tax lawyer crap. I know you were making payments prior to getting the lawyer involved. I think the question would be whether you continued to make those payments after the lawyer got involved and the OIC / appeal was being considered--and whether you ever received a notice that you defaulted on your installment agreement (that would be notice CP-523 and it would come by certified mail)."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misternatural 0 #20 March 27, 2009 Here I am trying to make you laugh about this,-nothing.Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #21 March 27, 2009 QuoteEssentially the IRS has 10 years after the date the return was filed (which was late in this case) to collect the debt. In extremely general terms, that is correct. However, in the case of: - a false or fraudulent return - a willful attempt to evade tax, or - failure to file a return Tax may be assessed or a court proceeding to collect tax may be commenced at any time. Also, the 10 year limitation on collections is extended by a levy on any of the taxpayer's property, which is what almost always happens. So the thought (although it may not be what you were implying) that you can get away with paying interest only for 10 years and then the problem will go away is incorrect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #22 March 27, 2009 Oh yeah...well the douchbag lawyer #1 the divorce lawyer that referred me to douchebag lawyer #2 (tax lawyer)...well I'm now related to him. Its a good thing he's got a massive house with lots of alcohol and invites me over often. But yeah I didnt forget about your comment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #23 March 27, 2009 Well while I was going to the tax lawyer he told me that he would get the IRS to halt my payements because he was working with them for the OIC. I never got a certified letter saying I went default on the IRS installement agreement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #24 March 27, 2009 Quote Dealing with the IRS sucks, Dealing with a lawyer is generally worse. I knew a woman who had her husband dump her, leaving her to take care of a kid by herself, then disappeared and quit paying child support. Then she lost her job, and was out of work for a few months. Shortly after she got a new job, the IRS suddenly decided to audit her. They put her through hell for months, making all kinds of accusations, and demanding documentation that took much time and trouble to obtain, and making her miss work to show up for meetings at the IRS office. Finally, they came to their decision... ...They decided they owed her money. WTF???"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #25 March 27, 2009 I know this is totally of topic but every time I see your avatar I keep getting reminded of 'the dude; in the big lebowski. That movie cracks me up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
