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It happens because sometimes students do not ask their instructors the questions but discuss it amongst themselves later which will usually lead to confusion and incorrect information. That sounds like what happended here. They didn't ask the original instructor for clarification but talked between themselves after the fact. For someone from out of town teaching a course, there is no opportunity to correct this misinformation since they are no longer there. Or maybe the students had additional questions after the course was over and the instructor left so they asked each other instead of seeking out someone qualified.
There are lots of ways for not everyone to get all the information.
Of course all instructors should try 100% to make sure their information is understood. But even the best instructors have to deal with the above from time to time, more so those that do traveling instruction.
There are lots of ways for not everyone to get all the information.
Of course all instructors should try 100% to make sure their information is understood. But even the best instructors have to deal with the above from time to time, more so those that do traveling instruction.
QuoteIt happens because sometimes students do not ask their instructors the questions but discuss it amongst themselves later
If it's covered in class, the INSTRUCTOR asks the questions to check and verify their understanding and clear up misconceptions. You quiz them...just that simple....and you quiz them again. But yes, to agree with you to some extent, sometimes that STILL doesn't mean they got it 5 minutes later.
If anyone thinks simply telling them is going to get it into their brains and become knowledge they're generating a high probability for the scenario which we are discussing. Surely you know that. Surely. Surely???
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
QuoteQuoteIt happens because sometimes students do not ask their instructors the questions but discuss it amongst themselves later
If it's covered in class, the INSTRUCTOR asks the questions to check and verify their understanding and clear up misconceptions. You quiz them...just that simple....and you quiz them again. But yes, to agree with you to some extent, sometimes that STILL doesn't mean they got it 5 minutes later.
What you describe is the difference between teaching and merely showing.
for what its worth as I was the only one here that actually knows the parties involved, from my stand point you both are very correct.
Evaluation may be the last phase of teaching, but it does not need to be skipped. Early on, as in a FJC, there is NO EXCUSE for not propperly evaluting your students to know that they have the information and have it correct and can properly perfrom the tasks. I think we can all agree that a student who can not properly perform his EPs when needed is not all the students fault.
When teaching a course to a higher experienced group, the same applies especially if the subject is a safety issue. If if not about safety, the instructor still owes the same evaluation as it is part of the teaching process that he is offering in return for his pay. However, I think we can agree that skimping on an agreement is less evil than skimping on safety.
When teaching a FJC, the student either gets it, or hopefully is not allowed to jump until he does. To the experienced group, if you have a yoyo in the class, it may come a time when you feel that you have excedded your commitment to him and he refuses to learn?? I do not think that was the case in this thread.
Now, for the part that I saw that you didn't. The guys that missed the information were the less experienced in the group. I get the feeling that the instructor may have been moving the class at the pace of the average, and therefore a couple got left behind. Then as mentioned earlier, they talked amoung themselves instead of to the instructor. It would have even been better if they would have talked to some of the more experienced ones taking the class.
Is this still a short fall on the instructors part. Absolutely! Personally I like to think that every thing my students do wrong is my fault, it keeps me keen and in search of better techniques at all time. Should we never let him back again and say he is not a true teacher, well I say not unless it happens repeatedly or unless he did not care about the situation. I can assure you that was not the point, when I contacted these guys they were as concerned about the problem as I was.
Both of you have very good stand points from my point of view. Good discusions here.
Evaluation may be the last phase of teaching, but it does not need to be skipped. Early on, as in a FJC, there is NO EXCUSE for not propperly evaluting your students to know that they have the information and have it correct and can properly perfrom the tasks. I think we can all agree that a student who can not properly perform his EPs when needed is not all the students fault.
When teaching a course to a higher experienced group, the same applies especially if the subject is a safety issue. If if not about safety, the instructor still owes the same evaluation as it is part of the teaching process that he is offering in return for his pay. However, I think we can agree that skimping on an agreement is less evil than skimping on safety.
When teaching a FJC, the student either gets it, or hopefully is not allowed to jump until he does. To the experienced group, if you have a yoyo in the class, it may come a time when you feel that you have excedded your commitment to him and he refuses to learn?? I do not think that was the case in this thread.
Now, for the part that I saw that you didn't. The guys that missed the information were the less experienced in the group. I get the feeling that the instructor may have been moving the class at the pace of the average, and therefore a couple got left behind. Then as mentioned earlier, they talked amoung themselves instead of to the instructor. It would have even been better if they would have talked to some of the more experienced ones taking the class.
Is this still a short fall on the instructors part. Absolutely! Personally I like to think that every thing my students do wrong is my fault, it keeps me keen and in search of better techniques at all time. Should we never let him back again and say he is not a true teacher, well I say not unless it happens repeatedly or unless he did not care about the situation. I can assure you that was not the point, when I contacted these guys they were as concerned about the problem as I was.
Both of you have very good stand points from my point of view. Good discusions here.
Thanks for the voice of reason!!
BTW, the PD pilots agree with you for what that is worth!
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