Getting Big to get back from a long spot????

[popsjumper 2]

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.... Should we never let him (the instructor) back again and say he is not a true teacher, well I say not unless it happens repeatedly or unless he did not care about the situation.

Absolutely agreed. Ain't none of us perfect. We could all use some helpful hints to get better.

Here's where we could go off on a tangent talking about the current system under which we operate that doesn't have post-rating instructor evaluations so there's no way to weed out the...well...let's say....less competent, the uncaring and the misdirected.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[bluetwo 0]

It's been educational, of course I know that there are serious skydivers who know what they're talking about here, whose advise should be heeded and there are goof balls who no one should listen to. And there's everything in between, so I try to take what makes sense and leave the silly shit for someone else.

It seems like the most important thing to understand was that a tailwind doesn't really push you, rather it just provides a sort of negative resistance situation where you're not fighting the wind or cutting through the still air... maybe I suck at explaining the way I see it or I could be wrong. Somebody let me know if I'm on track please?

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[azureriders 0]

Air speed vs ground speed and flying with the wind or against it can and has been explained a thousand different ways that all mean the same thing. I am not saying that you dont have it right in your head but let me try this:

Imagine a fish swiming across a tank at lets say 2 mph. Now the water is obviously sitting still so his water speed (air speed equivilant) would be 2 mph. The tank is also sitting still, so you could compare the fish to the floor and and say that his ground speed was also 2 mph.

Now as the fish swims, pick up the aquraium and pack it across the room and lets say that you are walking 1 mph. The water in the tank is niether pushing not pulling the fish and his water speed is still 2 mph, but if he happens to be swimming in the same direction as you are walking, then he is moving across the ground at 3mph. His speed plus yours

If the fish is swimming in the opposite direction that you are walking, still with a 2mph water speed, he is only crossing the ground at 1mph. His speed minus yours.

When you pack the tank, the water with in it is now moving across the room, however the fish does not feel that. This is the same as wind moving across the earth, the canopy does not feel it and flys the same speed through the air in any direction.

Logic would tell us then that any thing you can do to make a canopy fly faster, flater, further, steeper, etc. in one wind direction, will work exactly the same in any wind direction.

HOWEVER, some times some things are more important than others. If the fish wanted to get to one side of the room, but you were packing the tank towards the other side (almost need to think of the tank as bigger than the room) he is going to have to swim his ass off. This would be equivialant to your flying your canopy into the wind. You need to do everything you can to make that thing fly. This would include getting small and tweaking the canopy with riser input for its best glide.

Or lets say the fish wants to cross the room and you are packing the tank in that direction, well he can just be lazy and enjoy the ride. This would equate to you going with the wind to get back to the DZ, at which point all you may need to do is apply a bit of breaks, stay up in the wind as long as possible, and ride it home. Remember, tweaking the canopy for performance will do just as much going with the wind as it will into the wind, it just may not be as important at the time.

This is the point that started this whole thread but the wording was more like ~get small to go into the wind but you shouldn't have to if you are going with the wind~ some of the students then translated that into getting big to go with the wind.

I hope that explination helped, if not you can go back to your DZ and tell eveyone about the idiot on DZ.com rambling about a skydiving fish.

[bluetwo 0]

Yeah, for sure, that was great. Thanks a lot for the detailed response. And I had it right in my head just wanted to take it a step further and describe it in a different way.

Someone mentioned a canopy might experience a complete lack of flight if the tailwind was strong enough and I really didn't get how that could happen so I tried to feel it out... I'm not so great at it though.

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[azureriders 0]

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Someone mentioned a canopy might experience a complete lack of flight if the tailwind was strong enough and I really didn't get how that could happen so I tried to feel it out... I'm not so great at it though.

That was somewhat a sarcastic comment against the title of this thread. In order for geting big to get back to work, then the skydiver (and the canopy) would have to be feeling wind at his back. Two things can be said about that. 1) it is never going to happen in full flight of a properly functioning canopy in routine condtions 2) if it did, the canopy would fly and would fall from the sky

[rehmwa 2]

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It seems like the most important thing to understand was that a tailwind doesn't really push you, rather it just provides a sort of negative resistance situation where you're not fighting the wind or cutting through the still air... maybe I suck at explaining the way I see it or I could be wrong. Somebody let me know if I'm on track please?

a tail wind doesn't exist as far as the canopy is concerned - only relative to ground. You never get 'pushed', you get 'carried' in the direction of the moving airmass that you are always flying into. The wind doesn't hit us in the back (unless you seriously distort the canopy.,...)

Your statement is kind of a way to rationalize thinking about the whole thing in an inaccurate fashion. Flight is about the vehicle moving through the air. You take the ground speed thing out of your thought process and it's easier to understand. You are only in the air.

The fact that the whole airmass is moving is interesting, but it only matters when you are trying decide what to do on touchdown. The rest of the time, forget the ground.

The canopy doesn't know or care that it's flying downwind or upwind or crosswind. It's ALWAYS flying FORWARD into the wind at its flying airspeed.



when getting back from a long spot - the PILOT needs to trim out in whatever fashion gives him the shallowest relative descent angle to ground. That's all we need to know.

Even so, the canopy is always flying into a relative wind so reducing drag will help your flight angle regardless of the wind direction relative to the ground.

so thinking about that - getting big to get more drive is absolutely silly

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants