thrillseek 0 #1 June 18, 2002 Who out there has a need for this at your dz? i am working on something that might be a huge help and cheaper than whatever they have out there already.It all started as a way to help organize my dz, but i think a lot of other dz's can use it as well....thoughts?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #2 June 18, 2002 The standard software is called JumpRun, and is actually quite good. You can read about it at http://www.dztools.com_AmICQ: 5578907MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com AIM: andrewdmetcalfeYahoo IM: ametcalf_1999 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thrillseek 0 #3 June 18, 2002 hmmm that's almost $2k with all of the extras...I think ours will sell for under $600 and be as user friendly if not easier. i think the cost is what keeps more DZs from using this stuff.Anyone else have info on this?oh, and thanks for the info Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stacy 0 #4 June 18, 2002 I know cross keys (and ZHills I think) use Jump Run 5. from what I've seen/heard, 5 is much improved over the previous version.Stacyhttp://users.snip.net/~stacy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #5 June 18, 2002 Quotehmmm that's almost $2k with all of the extras...Considering how much work has gone into jumprun 5, and what it does, and the size of the market they're selling into, $2k is a fair price.What is it you're thinking?Jumprun has been used to some degree at every dropzone I've ever visited.And yes, JumpRun 5 is written in VB, COM, and DCOM - making it very easy to extend. I was once contracted by a DZ to integrated JumpRun 5 to their website. It was quite easy._AmICQ: 5578907MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com AIM: andrewdmetcalfeYahoo IM: ametcalf_1999 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyberskydive 0 #6 June 18, 2002 I've often thought about this, ever since a post on rec where someone representing jumprun publically charged a guy who was losing his entire dz and planes sold his computer with the jumprun software with software piracy. anyway.....Just my opinion but I think it will be pretty hard to get those using jumprun to switch to another similar system. First of all, they've already forked out too much money. 2k, gimme a break. If I was asked to develop a manifest system for a single dz I would probably install a web server, database, necessary scripting support etc and have them simply open thier web browser and type in "localhost" or something to access the main menu. (kinda similar to GM's SI2000 system)Most dz's have just gotten used to using jumprun a new program that does the same thing might not be all that appealing. Your gonna have to show them why yours is better.You also have to realize that you have a very limited market. There are only so many dropzones, and only X number of those use manifest software. (hell some probably still use paper.) Even though it will allow you to be on a more personal level with clients / users, the numbers get smaller when you factor in the dropzones that dont want a program or wont make the change.to cut it short, if I were gonna build a system for dropzones. I would custom build it tailored to what the dz needs. Down to the graphic design. Then you could be free to add features like gear inventory and repack reminders etc, payroll features, or plane maintenance records. New features are whats gonna sell if anything. On top of the manifest stuff.If I were in your shoes, I would build the most awesome custom system for the dz you are doing it for now, work out the bugs etc and get it like you /the dz wants it. Get them to recommend your sytems(s) to others. Visit other local dropzones and show them what a custom system can do for them, and maybe they will be happy to make the change.You can pretty much calculate how much money you'll make if you charge a flat price. eg 2k for 50 dropzones = 100000I think before you begin on anyhting for the masses it would be best to survey all the dz's, find out what they want, and build it for em custom.................there is no spoon--------------------My website Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #7 June 18, 2002 >(hell some probably still use paper.)My favorite 2 dropzones use paper as their only system. I know the one looked at Jumprun, but at 2K that would buy enough paper to last for 1000 years... SDC went to paper at last years Summerfest.Software is nice but at $2k for the software then another $500 min for a computer then the training and etc... I just can't see either of he DZ's I love switching anytime soon.Drop the tube...DROP the tube... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #8 June 19, 2002 QuoteSoftware is nice but at $2k for the software then another $500 min for a computer then the training and etc... I just can't see either of he DZ's I love switching anytime soon.You have to remember that it's so much more then just a manifest system, it's accounting, it's plane management, hell, it's even FUEL management. It's payroll, it's inventory, and lastly, it does pretty good at manifest.Industry specific customized software packages frequently sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars. In fact, I write such a package that we sell to home builders, we've yet to sell it for less then $600,000. This is NOT off the shelf software.Yeah, we all can look at something like the manifest part of jumprun and see a simple database with a couple of screens. You'd think to yourself that you could probably pull that off with a few weeks of coding if you set the time to it.Unfortunatley, the world doesn't work like that. People WANT plane management. They want support for automated payments, support for reserve packing date enforcement, overrides, USPA membership checking. They want customizable fields, transaction rollbacks, and extensability.I don't think either of you really understand what goes into a "ready for primetime" software package. Jumprun 5 is exactly that. I worked with the people at dztools.com when I extended jumprun for a DZ. I found them very easy to work with, knowledgable about the product, and very helpfull. Clearly though, none of them were getting rich off jumprun.That's not to say that jumprun is perfect. There's a lot of features it's missing, and I supose one can make an argument that by trying to become that perfect tool for everyone, they've actually made it that perfect tool for nobody.I'm sceptical, though. From every side that I've seen, it's a very good, very complex software app, that sells (IMHO) at a very reasonable price for all that it does._AmICQ: 5578907MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com AIM: andrewdmetcalfeYahoo IM: ametcalf_1999 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thrillseek 0 #9 June 19, 2002 what about reaching the simple dz operators that want all of the manifest stuff, but aren't willing to pay as much due to being smaller businesses? I'm sure if my dropzone wanted it, a lot of others might as well. Now, i understand that i am never going to get rich off of this thing, but it might pay for some jumps and some beer, right??Besides, this is already being worked up. The Name is DZ Manifest Manager 2.0. It'll be easy enough for the people that use paper and have enough features to attract people that want to manage fuel, maintenance, expenditures, etc... So far, the preliminary version was good, and the 2.0 version will be even better.ok, so it's a cheap plug!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #10 June 19, 2002 Andy.. I used to be a coder before I went TCP and networked. I know how complex the code is in Jumprun since I've looked into writing a scaled down version for the DZ in exchange for jump tickets... See we still consider our selfs a club style DZ where all the jumpers pitch in and help out either by LO, helping load the plane, fuel, what ever is needed to keep the place running smoothly. Via paper we can track the fuel in 3 planes at the same time and all the other stuff of Jumprun. Bundles like it have way too much for what the club would use it for and therefore its non good economics to get it. The 2500 that could go into software that is way overkill was droped into new containers for the students this year. Whats needed is a smaller scaled down version for places that don't need all the bells and whistles of the full Jumprun software. A single 182 DZ could care less about multiple plane management ,inventory, most likely fuel but would love the ability to do simple single plane and possibly account management. For places like that... whats the other options out there if any currently exist?Drop the tube...DROP the tube... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #11 June 19, 2002 At our DZ we use a 2002 model clipboard, state of the art #2 pencils and only the finest cut paper from the best trees....all for around 10$......jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thrillseek 0 #12 June 19, 2002 ...I think i may have finally gotten a point across with someone!!!That is EXACTLY what i am working on. The choices i found out there were way too expensive. I called one drop zone i visited and all i got was "some guy in atlanta made ours". Hence, the program i am working on. It should be ready for marketing in another month or so. Maybe by Rantoul...we'll see.A.T. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cameramonkey 0 #13 June 19, 2002 I've often thought about this, ever since a post on rec where someone representing jumprun publically charged a guy who was losing his entire dz and planes sold his computer with the jumprun software with software piracy. anyway.....---------------------isnt anything out of the ordinary for software developers. You dont BUY most(99.9%) software, you pay to USE it (licensing). Part of that license is that YOU bought it, and its non transferrable. Kinda like your wristband for quincy... just because you dont need it anymore, doesnt mean you can cut it off and hand it to your buddy to use the rest of the week after you leave. Yeah, it kinda sucks, but I can appreciate it. Welcome to the computer world.and remember, since JR 5 went to mickeysoft SQL based system, a good chunk of the cost goes to pay for the license to MS for SQL, which isnt a cheap package (last cost I looked at was $850). remove that from JR5, and then consider the cost. it isnt quite as bad after all. in my opinion, if the DZ industry werent so small, I'd have a problem with JR sueing for piracy. but since they have such a limited market, I cant blame them from a business standpoint. And the point wasnt to drive the seller deeper into debt... it was to bar him from essentially giving away/selling something he didnt own. MSN:skygilligan@hotmail.comAIM:skydiverindyICQ:7637979Yahoo:skygilligan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thrillseek 0 #14 June 19, 2002 well, at least i'm not "ganking" someone else's shit...just making a simpler, cheaper version that'll work for the little dropzones out there. I think this is an apples and oranges issue, since the small dropzones don't need all of the "bells and whistles" for their manifests that the bigger ones do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #15 June 19, 2002 If its using SQL port it to mySQL or even use MSDE from MS and both are free.If the licence does not say its non-transferable then its considered an asset once purchased and can be sold for what ever price the buyer is willing to consider. Kinda like the MS OS's are transferable to any new user, but the software can only be installed once at any one time.If someone purchases another company they get that companies licences to Windows with the purchase of the business since its an asset or debt depending on the support of it Drop the tube...DROP the tube... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cameramonkey 0 #16 June 19, 2002 I think this is an apples and oranges issue, since the small dropzones don't need all of the "bells and whistles" for their manifests that the bigger ones do.------------------good point. I also think there is a market for a basic manifest software package as well. Make us geeks proud and use lots of open source stuff like mysql :)MSN:skygilligan@hotmail.comAIM:skydiverindyICQ:7637979Yahoo:skygilligan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thrillseek 0 #17 June 19, 2002 done deal! :)open source rocks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmddave 0 #18 June 19, 2002 I currently help run a small dz and we are definitely interested in another manifest program that will make everyone's lives a bit easier. Something with a/c and fuel management as well as keeping track of wear and tear on student gear would help us out a bunch if it could be done fairly cheap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #19 June 19, 2002 QuoteMake us geeks proud and use lots of open source stuff like mysql :)PostgreSQL or the RedHat Database would be a much better choice.mysql is not a 'bet your business database', in the same way that Access isn't. Postgresql is much more rugged._AmICQ: 5578907MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com AIM: andrewdmetcalfeYahoo IM: ametcalf_1999 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedPhreak 0 #20 April 30, 2006 I know it's an old thread but... Anybody have any updates or suggestions on low cost DZ management software? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adrenalin 0 #21 May 8, 2006 I know I'm tooting my own horn but have you taken a look at my stuff? Check out the Classifieds Miscellaneous section for 'Manifest Windows XP'...Mostly into developing software these days (web sites, databases, & simulations). At the DZ you'll find me with the other 'vidiots' looking for something to shoot ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackR 0 #22 May 22, 2008 And I'm digging it up again. It appears that JumpRun is still available. There are a few others on the Software Resources page. I too am interested to know if there have been updates in this area. Are there DZs or clubs still looking for this type of software? Are the existing tools meeting the needs of the DZs using them? What are the holes or missing features that aren't being taken care of with existing options?Packin' Jack 42nd Lost Prairie: The Ultimate Answer to Life, the Universe, and Skydiving 25 Jul - 3 Aug 2009 2007 photos: http://www.skydive.com/prairie/pages/prairie.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #23 May 22, 2008 We use skywriter... but I don't know how much it costs. It works well unless the data base gives you a big fuck you."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr17Hz 1 #24 June 4, 2008 I've got a dropzone manifest software product that I'll be going public with very soon; I'm currently beta testing it, you can find some slightly outdated information up at www.RealDropzone.com, depending on your situation, I may consider you for a beta; email me at mattchristenson@realskydiving.com - at this point I don't plan on going public with it until Feb 09 at the 2009 PIA Symposium. The product is significant, I have personally spent the last 2 years of my life investing into it. If you search the forums on here for RealDropzone you're likely to find other posts where I describe capabilities. It handles everything from the first time a potential customer visits your website to each time they manifest. Matt ChristensonMatt Christenson mattchristenson@realskydiving.com http://www.RealDropzone.com - A new breed of dropzone manifest software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr17Hz 1 #25 January 25, 2009 QuoteI've got a dropzone manifest software product that I'll be going public with very soon; I'm currently beta testing it, you can find some slightly outdated information up at www.RealDropzone.com, depending on your situation, I may consider you for a beta; email me at mattchristenson@realskydiving.com - at this point I don't plan on going public with it until Feb 09 at the 2009 PIA Symposium. The product is significant, I have personally spent the last 2 years of my life investing into it. If you search the forums on here for RealDropzone you're likely to find other posts where I describe capabilities. It handles everything from the first time a potential customer visits your website to each time they manifest. Matt Christenson http://www.RealDropzone.com is no longer out of date and has been updated with an overwealming amount of information on the product, with more to come. Additionally, the product will in fact be public in February as indicated above, and I will be at the PIA Symposium in booth number 404, providing demonstrations of the product. Cheers, Matt ChristensonMatt Christenson mattchristenson@realskydiving.com http://www.RealDropzone.com - A new breed of dropzone manifest software. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
