borgy 0 #1 October 28, 2005 I am a new sky diver, and i am currently trying to research what chute is appropriate. I way aprox 70 kg, and I have been told by many JM's at my drop zone that a 170 to a 190 is appropriate. However I continiously see threads on this sight criticising new jumpers useing this equiptment. Who do I believe???I only trust two people in this world, one of them is me and the other one aint you. Nicolas Cage as Cameron Poe in "Con Air" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #2 October 28, 2005 Choose your own canopy size. At your level it would be wise to select a main that has you at a wingload of 0.9:1 or maybe a 1.0:1 at the outside. Make sure you don't get a semi-elipitacle or a fully eliptacle. A conservative 7 cell comes to my mind.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #3 October 28, 2005 (For our American friends, a 70kg person will be about 175-180lbs out the door.) Wingloading is your exit weight (you + rig) in lbs, divided by the size of your canopy in sq feet. 10kg (22lbs) is a reasonable weight to budget for a rig. A sensible first canopy choice would have a wingloading of approximately 1.0. So, for you a 170 (1.03) to a 190 (0.93) should be fine. If you weighed 100kg, you'd have a wingloading of 1.42 under a 170. That'd be stupid for a first rig, and you wouldn't be allowed jump it at Picton. Listen to your instructors; by and large they're a sensible bunch. Also, you should be aware that Phil has to approve your first rig. He's not going to let you jump something too dangerous. After all, life-flights are no fun for anyone. Additionally, you can't jump your own rig until you've done at least some of your B-rels. Talk to an instructor about this... not being an instructor I don't know the details. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #4 October 28, 2005 Quote(For our American friends, a 70kg person will be about 175-180lbs out the door.) I read his post as being 70 kg body weight. 70 x 2.54 = 177.8. Add 20ish pounds for the gear. That's 1.16 on a 170. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
980 0 #5 October 28, 2005 QuoteQuote(For our American friends, a 70kg person will be about 175-180lbs out the door.) I read his post as being 70 kg body weight. 70 x 2.54 = 177.8. Add 20ish pounds for the gear. That's 1.16 on a 170. uhm, that should read: 70 x 2.2 = 154 1 kg = 2.2 lb you were thinking inches to cm, 1 inch = 2.54 cm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #6 October 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote(For our American friends, a 70kg person will be about 175-180lbs out the door.) I read his post as being 70 kg body weight. 70 x 2.54 = 177.8. Add 20ish pounds for the gear. That's 1.16 on a 170. uhm, that should read: 70 x 2.2 = 154 1 kg = 2.2 lb you were thinking inches to cm, 1 inch = 2.54 cm Sorry, bytchy, but 980 is correct....but I will consult you sometime in the future for what to do with my %50 off Flite Suite coupon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bob.dino 1 #7 October 28, 2005 Google is your friend Apart from that, does my advice make some vague sense? As background for Picton: - All first rigs must be approved by the CI (~=DZO) before being jumped. - In general, starting on anything smaller than a 170 or on a wingloading significantly greater than 1.0 isn't permitted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites borgy 0 #8 October 28, 2005 Yeah mate thanks, That makes sense I didn't realise that first rigs needed to be approved. But I think I would feel ok about a 170 now. I realise i need to do the conversion and some of b rels I'm just doing some research as I'm about to finish my aff so beers will be on me this weekend if all goes to plan. Thanks for the advice all very helpfulI only trust two people in this world, one of them is me and the other one aint you. Nicolas Cage as Cameron Poe in "Con Air" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GravityGirl 0 #9 October 28, 2005 Based on the limited info you provided, I feel a 170 or a 190 would be okay. You can choose if you want to take the more conservative route or push it a bit. Consider this. Are you going to be jumping on a regular basis? Will you be on hold for winter? If the answer is yes, consider a good used 190 in a rig that will also house a 170. Then when spring arrives and you are putting some jumps on the 190, trade it out for the 170. What you want to avoid is just getting off student status, then having to go on a winter hold and coming back uncurrent on the smaller canopy. Too many variables. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bob.dino 1 #10 October 28, 2005 QuoteWill you be on hold for winter? Winter? What's that? Oh yeah, it's when the jumping finishes at 4:30pm instead of 7... Just so ya know, Picton has year-round jumping. You'll get blown out occasionally in Sep/Oct due to turbulent Westerly winds, but the rest of the year is just fine... Oh yeah, and it's just coming into spring/summer now . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GravityGirl 0 #11 October 28, 2005 Well there you go. That's what I get for not reading his profile.... or yours. For some reason, I thought he was from the UK. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mattias 0 #12 October 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteWill you be on hold for winter? Winter? What's that? Oh yeah, it's when the jumping finishes at 4:30pm instead of 7... *Snipp* Ya bastard! GrumblegrumblegrumbleGrumblegrumblegrumble GrumblegrumblegrumbleGrumblegrumblegrumble GrumblegrumblegrumbleGrumblegrumblegrumble GrumblegrumblegrumbleGrumblegrumblegrumble Grumblegrumblegrumble... If you go as low as 170 make sure it is square and not eliptical at all, if you go 190 I might have considered a slight eliptical (Springo type, but stay away from the french stuff...) and depending on how you fly currently, otherwise there have been better advice around here._______________________________________ What goes up, must come down... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 2 #13 October 28, 2005 Quote If you go as low as 170 make sure it is square and not eliptical at all, if you go 190 I might have considered a slight eliptical (Springo type, but stay away from the french stuff...) I find your advice a bit strange, a Springo is an elliptical canopy similar to a Stiletto but twitchier, for which you need 500 jumps in The Netherlands. Would that be approved a first canopy?? And you'd be underloading it so what's the point of jumping one that big anyway. As for all square, not many canopies are anymore. I'd go with a 170 or 190 intermediate canopy, like Spectre, Triathlon, Sabre (2), Pilot, Safire (2), Electra, ... ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tso-d_chris 0 #14 October 28, 2005 QuoteI read his post as being 70 kg body weight. 70 x 2.54 = 177.8. Add 20ish pounds for the gear. That's 1.16 on a 170. 1 kg = 2.2 lbs. (approximately) Perhaps you are thinking: 1 inch = 2.54 cm (approximately)? 70 kg = 154 lbs. 154 + 20 = 174 --> 1.02 lbs/sq ft Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tso-d_chris 0 #15 October 28, 2005 Damn, beat me to it! For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Elisha 1 #16 October 28, 2005 QuoteYou'll get blown out occasionally in Sep/Oct due to turbulent Westerly winds, but the rest of the year is just fine... I prefer to just not jump when the wind is 20+ instead of getting blown out - landing way off sux. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZigZagMarquis 9 #17 October 28, 2005 QuoteI prefer to just not jump when the wind is 20+ instead of getting blown out - landing way off sux. Me too! When the winds are doing 20+, its BEER TIME!! ... don't make me start drinking! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mattias 0 #18 October 28, 2005 QuoteQuote If you go as low as 170 make sure it is square and not eliptical at all, if you go 190 I might have considered a slight eliptical (Springo type, but stay away from the french stuff...) I find your advice a bit strange, a Springo is an elliptical canopy similar to a Stiletto but twitchier, for which you need 500 jumps in The Netherlands. Would that be approved a first canopy?? And you'd be underloading it so what's the point of jumping one that big anyway. As for all square, not many canopies are anymore. I'd go with a 170 or 190 intermediate canopy, like Spectre, Triathlon, Sabre (2), Pilot, Safire (2), Electra, ... Sorry, you are absolutely right, my mistake. I will edit my post. And I meant merit (I am sure I did anyway...)_______________________________________ What goes up, must come down... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Elisha 1 #19 October 28, 2005 Well, you know, it depends on what time of the day! At the Byron Boogie, everyone gave up and started drinking around 2ish. I held out for another hour or so and then felt lonely w/o a beer in hand and then gave up too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #20 October 28, 2005 Oops. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites koppel 4 #21 October 30, 2005 Why the restriction on B-Rels before jumping personal gear?I like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bob.dino 1 #22 October 31, 2005 Student rigs at Picton are SOS ripcord - mostly Telesis. I believe the reasoning is that the student should be comfortable in freefall before transitioning to BOC throwout gear. That said, I'm not an instructor and could easily be wrong . edit: I can chase up an instructor and ask them the question if you're interested. PM me if so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mdrejhon 8 #23 October 31, 2005 QuoteI am a new sky diver, and i am currently trying to research what chute is appropriate. I way aprox 70 kg, and I have been told by many JM's at my drop zone that a 170 to a 190 is appropriate. However I continiously see threads on this sight criticising new jumpers useing this equiptment. Who do I believe???For my first rig, I started off on (and still am on) a 170 at wingload 1.1 -- BUT I was renting for a longer time, and already had 57 jumps before I started trial-jumping 170 rentals. This is where I still am and staying where I am for at least another hundred jumps. Erring on the safe side is always good, 190 works well. If you do get a 170, I strongly recommend Brian Germain's "Parachute and Its Pilot" book -- just so you are armed with the extra information you need for the responsibility of slightly exceeding recommendations (such as 1.1 on a 170). You CAN get hurt. That being said, a nice trusty square Sabre at that 1.1 wingload will still be safer than an elliptical at 1.0 wingload. So parachute type and performance plays a factor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
bob.dino 1 #7 October 28, 2005 Google is your friend Apart from that, does my advice make some vague sense? As background for Picton: - All first rigs must be approved by the CI (~=DZO) before being jumped. - In general, starting on anything smaller than a 170 or on a wingloading significantly greater than 1.0 isn't permitted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
borgy 0 #8 October 28, 2005 Yeah mate thanks, That makes sense I didn't realise that first rigs needed to be approved. But I think I would feel ok about a 170 now. I realise i need to do the conversion and some of b rels I'm just doing some research as I'm about to finish my aff so beers will be on me this weekend if all goes to plan. Thanks for the advice all very helpfulI only trust two people in this world, one of them is me and the other one aint you. Nicolas Cage as Cameron Poe in "Con Air" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #9 October 28, 2005 Based on the limited info you provided, I feel a 170 or a 190 would be okay. You can choose if you want to take the more conservative route or push it a bit. Consider this. Are you going to be jumping on a regular basis? Will you be on hold for winter? If the answer is yes, consider a good used 190 in a rig that will also house a 170. Then when spring arrives and you are putting some jumps on the 190, trade it out for the 170. What you want to avoid is just getting off student status, then having to go on a winter hold and coming back uncurrent on the smaller canopy. Too many variables. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #10 October 28, 2005 QuoteWill you be on hold for winter? Winter? What's that? Oh yeah, it's when the jumping finishes at 4:30pm instead of 7... Just so ya know, Picton has year-round jumping. You'll get blown out occasionally in Sep/Oct due to turbulent Westerly winds, but the rest of the year is just fine... Oh yeah, and it's just coming into spring/summer now . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #11 October 28, 2005 Well there you go. That's what I get for not reading his profile.... or yours. For some reason, I thought he was from the UK. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mattias 0 #12 October 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteWill you be on hold for winter? Winter? What's that? Oh yeah, it's when the jumping finishes at 4:30pm instead of 7... *Snipp* Ya bastard! GrumblegrumblegrumbleGrumblegrumblegrumble GrumblegrumblegrumbleGrumblegrumblegrumble GrumblegrumblegrumbleGrumblegrumblegrumble GrumblegrumblegrumbleGrumblegrumblegrumble Grumblegrumblegrumble... If you go as low as 170 make sure it is square and not eliptical at all, if you go 190 I might have considered a slight eliptical (Springo type, but stay away from the french stuff...) and depending on how you fly currently, otherwise there have been better advice around here._______________________________________ What goes up, must come down... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #13 October 28, 2005 Quote If you go as low as 170 make sure it is square and not eliptical at all, if you go 190 I might have considered a slight eliptical (Springo type, but stay away from the french stuff...) I find your advice a bit strange, a Springo is an elliptical canopy similar to a Stiletto but twitchier, for which you need 500 jumps in The Netherlands. Would that be approved a first canopy?? And you'd be underloading it so what's the point of jumping one that big anyway. As for all square, not many canopies are anymore. I'd go with a 170 or 190 intermediate canopy, like Spectre, Triathlon, Sabre (2), Pilot, Safire (2), Electra, ... ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #14 October 28, 2005 QuoteI read his post as being 70 kg body weight. 70 x 2.54 = 177.8. Add 20ish pounds for the gear. That's 1.16 on a 170. 1 kg = 2.2 lbs. (approximately) Perhaps you are thinking: 1 inch = 2.54 cm (approximately)? 70 kg = 154 lbs. 154 + 20 = 174 --> 1.02 lbs/sq ft Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #15 October 28, 2005 Damn, beat me to it! For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #16 October 28, 2005 QuoteYou'll get blown out occasionally in Sep/Oct due to turbulent Westerly winds, but the rest of the year is just fine... I prefer to just not jump when the wind is 20+ instead of getting blown out - landing way off sux. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #17 October 28, 2005 QuoteI prefer to just not jump when the wind is 20+ instead of getting blown out - landing way off sux. Me too! When the winds are doing 20+, its BEER TIME!! ... don't make me start drinking! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mattias 0 #18 October 28, 2005 QuoteQuote If you go as low as 170 make sure it is square and not eliptical at all, if you go 190 I might have considered a slight eliptical (Springo type, but stay away from the french stuff...) I find your advice a bit strange, a Springo is an elliptical canopy similar to a Stiletto but twitchier, for which you need 500 jumps in The Netherlands. Would that be approved a first canopy?? And you'd be underloading it so what's the point of jumping one that big anyway. As for all square, not many canopies are anymore. I'd go with a 170 or 190 intermediate canopy, like Spectre, Triathlon, Sabre (2), Pilot, Safire (2), Electra, ... Sorry, you are absolutely right, my mistake. I will edit my post. And I meant merit (I am sure I did anyway...)_______________________________________ What goes up, must come down... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #19 October 28, 2005 Well, you know, it depends on what time of the day! At the Byron Boogie, everyone gave up and started drinking around 2ish. I held out for another hour or so and then felt lonely w/o a beer in hand and then gave up too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #20 October 28, 2005 Oops. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites koppel 4 #21 October 30, 2005 Why the restriction on B-Rels before jumping personal gear?I like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bob.dino 1 #22 October 31, 2005 Student rigs at Picton are SOS ripcord - mostly Telesis. I believe the reasoning is that the student should be comfortable in freefall before transitioning to BOC throwout gear. That said, I'm not an instructor and could easily be wrong . edit: I can chase up an instructor and ask them the question if you're interested. PM me if so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mdrejhon 8 #23 October 31, 2005 QuoteI am a new sky diver, and i am currently trying to research what chute is appropriate. I way aprox 70 kg, and I have been told by many JM's at my drop zone that a 170 to a 190 is appropriate. However I continiously see threads on this sight criticising new jumpers useing this equiptment. Who do I believe???For my first rig, I started off on (and still am on) a 170 at wingload 1.1 -- BUT I was renting for a longer time, and already had 57 jumps before I started trial-jumping 170 rentals. This is where I still am and staying where I am for at least another hundred jumps. Erring on the safe side is always good, 190 works well. If you do get a 170, I strongly recommend Brian Germain's "Parachute and Its Pilot" book -- just so you are armed with the extra information you need for the responsibility of slightly exceeding recommendations (such as 1.1 on a 170). You CAN get hurt. That being said, a nice trusty square Sabre at that 1.1 wingload will still be safer than an elliptical at 1.0 wingload. So parachute type and performance plays a factor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
koppel 4 #21 October 30, 2005 Why the restriction on B-Rels before jumping personal gear?I like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #22 October 31, 2005 Student rigs at Picton are SOS ripcord - mostly Telesis. I believe the reasoning is that the student should be comfortable in freefall before transitioning to BOC throwout gear. That said, I'm not an instructor and could easily be wrong . edit: I can chase up an instructor and ask them the question if you're interested. PM me if so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #23 October 31, 2005 QuoteI am a new sky diver, and i am currently trying to research what chute is appropriate. I way aprox 70 kg, and I have been told by many JM's at my drop zone that a 170 to a 190 is appropriate. However I continiously see threads on this sight criticising new jumpers useing this equiptment. Who do I believe???For my first rig, I started off on (and still am on) a 170 at wingload 1.1 -- BUT I was renting for a longer time, and already had 57 jumps before I started trial-jumping 170 rentals. This is where I still am and staying where I am for at least another hundred jumps. Erring on the safe side is always good, 190 works well. If you do get a 170, I strongly recommend Brian Germain's "Parachute and Its Pilot" book -- just so you are armed with the extra information you need for the responsibility of slightly exceeding recommendations (such as 1.1 on a 170). You CAN get hurt. That being said, a nice trusty square Sabre at that 1.1 wingload will still be safer than an elliptical at 1.0 wingload. So parachute type and performance plays a factor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
