phoenixlpr 0 #1 October 28, 2005 I've heard that a new Cypress2 model is out. Can anyone confirm it? Activation speed has been changed to 43 m/s, no activation under 100m. Not recommended for wingsuite jumps. Edit: speed corrected Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiler 0 #2 October 28, 2005 Yup, the CYPRES Dealer Letter November 2005 has just arrived on my desk. Speed Cypres 2 can be recognised by the red button with the white imprint "Speed" on the control unit (same as how Student and Tandem have this written on the control unit). Actiuvation speed has been lifted from 35m/s on the standard Cypres2 to 43m/s on the Speed model. That's now 155km/h or 96mph. It also won't activate below 330feet or 100m AGL. There's a whole load of info about who might want to use a Speed Cypres 2, and disclaimers regarding wingsuits etc. Also that it is still very difficult to get a Cypres2 to activate anyway. It concludes by saying: * The Speed Cypres 2 should only be used by skydivers who really need it * We do not recommend its use unless the skydiver has understood all its properties and the difference to an Expert Cypres with all consequences * The Speed Cypres 2 will be offered at the same price as the Expert/Student/Tandem Cypres 2 * Conversion from another Cypres2 model to the Speed Cypres 2 can be made without charge.www.wingin-it.co.uk Wingin' It wingsuit school Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thepollster 0 #3 October 28, 2005 Great. I wonder if one of the disclaimers will be not for use on tracking jumps. I know at least one person has died back-tracking into the ground, and many people track at speeds slower than 96mph. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #4 October 28, 2005 Do you think that was a problem of their ADD? I don't think any ADD can be "bullet proof". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thepollster 0 #5 October 28, 2005 QuoteDo you think that was a problem of their ADD? It wasn't a problem with the "old" cypres/cypres2, but it will be now. Granted, it doesn't happen a lot, but it would suck to fix a problem that doesn't exist for the majority (AAD firing under canopy for those that do multiple rotation landings), and die because of higher activation speed of the new unit. QuoteI don't think any ADD can be "bullet proof". The regular cypres is pretty damn reliable. If you pull low, it may fire. I can't say I've ever heard of anyone firing a cypres after a 270 for landing. If you are that concerned about an AAD for high-performance landings, but want an AAD, buy an Astra. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #6 October 28, 2005 Quoteand die because of higher activation speed of the new unit. Please. They won't die for the new activation speeds, they'll die because they failed to put a canopy out at the appropriate time.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thepollster 0 #7 October 28, 2005 And if they die from nothing out, why did they spend the money on an AAD? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pbla4024 0 #8 October 28, 2005 Please. They won't because they failed to put a canopy out at the appropriate time, they'll die because they were born. Fido Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marion 0 #9 October 28, 2005 QuoteIt wasn't a problem with the "old" cypres/cypres2, but it will be now. Granted, it doesn't happen a lot, but it would suck to fix a problem that doesn't exist for the majority (AAD firing under canopy for those that do multiple rotation landings), and die because of higher activation speed of the new unit. Stepping away from the "Can your ADD kill you" argument... It sounds like Airtec is not switching all units to the higher activation speed, so if you don't want it, don't buy it. It's an alternative for some people who might otherwise go without an AAD for safety reasons. Student and Tandem models are for special markets. So is the Speed model. On a tandem jump, I'd want a Tandem Cypres. In my current rig, I'd want an Expert Cypres. If I flew a canopy that went really really fast, I'd want a Speed Cypres. One size doesn't fit all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thepollster 0 #10 October 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteIt wasn't a problem with the "old" cypres/cypres2, but it will be now. Granted, it doesn't happen a lot, but it would suck to fix a problem that doesn't exist for the majority (AAD firing under canopy for those that do multiple rotation landings), and die because of higher activation speed of the new unit. Stepping away from the "Can your ADD kill you" argument... It sounds like Airtec is not switching all units to the lower activation speed, so if you don't want it, don't buy it. It's an alternative for some people who might otherwise go without an AAD for safety reasons. Student and Tandem models are for special markets. So is the Speed model. On a tandem jump, I'd want a Tandem Cypres. In my current rig, I'd want an Expert Cypres. I agree with you. The problem I see is:"If I flew a canopy that went really really fast, I'd want a Speed Cypres." I'd guess worldwide there are less than 100 people who fit this profile(true multiple rotation landings). Unfortunately, there are going to be many misinformed skydivers buying a speed cypres, and have less protection than if they had a regular cypres. It has been proven over many years that you can safely do a 270 under a cross-braced canopy with a cypres. Lately the trend I've seen is to leave the cypres off because of Adrian's incident. Why? Did 270's suddenly become less safe? Or are skydivers not educating themselves on the true risks? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #11 October 28, 2005 QuoteThat's now 155km/h or 96mph. That is really fast, and I know I can get a fair bit slower while tracking. I don't get it, this is their answer to the swooping problem? Is it just me, or does it seem like the guy who could out-swoop the old Cypres, would be the same sort of high time jumpers with the skills to under-track the new Cypress? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marion 0 #12 October 28, 2005 There are very few people out there who would benefit from the Speed model, but that number is growing. It seems like a good alternative to introduce to a growing market. QuoteUnfortunately, there are going to be many misinformed skydivers buying a speed cypres, and have less protection than if they had a regular cypres. Yeah, I guess. But really, people make uninformed choices about all kinds of things and I don't want that to limit the cool stuff that's available to people who take the time to know their gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #13 October 28, 2005 Once canopy descent speeds and "free"fall descent speeds overlap, it's going to be impossible to create an AAD that can perfectly decide which it's looking at based primarily on speed. The responsibility will at that point fall on the jumper to ensure he does not pilot his body or canopy into an incorrect descent speed and altitude envelope for how his AAD is configured/installed. We would like AADs to be "airbags" that catch us when we screw up, and so we would like to not have to screw up "carefully" so the AAD is most sure to perform. But we have always know that skydiving gear can kill us in ways we weren't even thinking about, and we can foul the operation of our skydiving gear by doing things wrong. (For example, entangling the reserve pilot chute is bad.) The AAD has just displayed some new fingers into this field. I don't think the gear has gotten more dangerous, here. I think we're just realizing what was previously present, and we're using the gear harder. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #14 October 28, 2005 What is is with this BS "victim" attitude out here.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #15 October 29, 2005 Jeez.... Ida know. I'm gonna scratch my butt on this one. *sniff**sniff* Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #16 October 29, 2005 Yeah, I know.....I'm out on a limb on this one..... ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #17 October 29, 2005 QuoteOnce canopy descent speeds and "free"fall descent speeds overlap, it's going to be impossible to create an AAD that can perfectly decide which it's looking at based primarily on speed. Exactly. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #18 October 29, 2005 QuoteGreat. I wonder if one of the disclaimers will be not for use on tracking jumps. I know at least one person has died back-tracking into the ground, and many people track at speeds slower than 96mph. The Cypres was developed to protect skydivers who failed to pull by 750 feet. It has worked damn well when used as it was intended. Skydivers, not Cypres changed the rules and then bitched when the unit worked as designed. Now they come out with something to prevent (maybe) some of the recent problems with jumpers exceeding the design limits of the old units. Before the first unit is sold you want to blame it for causing fatalities. This new unit was designed to be used within certain design limits. If there is a possibility that a jumper feels he/she will exceed these limits don’t buy the damn thing. In any of the various skydiving disciplines, there are gear choices to be made. The smart jumper will educate him/herself and make good choices. The stupid, lazy or “can’t be bothered” jumper will continue to make poor choices. To say that someone back tracking into the ground was the fault of gear is not looking at the facts. On any skydive there are only 2 things that you must do to survive. 1 is deploy a land able canopy and 2 is land that canopy safely. There is only one piece of equipment that you should depend on to do this. And you can’t buy it at a gear store. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #19 October 29, 2005 No, they'll die because they never read dropzone.com. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #20 October 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteThat's now 155km/h or 96mph. That is really fast, and I know I can get a fair bit slower while tracking. I don't get it, this is their answer to the swooping problem? Is it just me, or does it seem like the guy who could out-swoop the old Cypres, would be the same sort of high time jumpers with the skills to under-track the new Cypress? If someone with all that skill tracks into the ground they wanted to do it. no AAD is gunna save that person And if people buy high dollar shit without looking into what they need then they too get what they deserve. Take some personal responsibilty peopleYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #21 October 30, 2005 QuoteQuoteThat's now 155km/h or 96mph. That is really fast, and I know I can get a fair bit slower while tracking. Huh? are you going to track into the ground? Cypres is there to save me from a nothing out situation where I am not flying. I won't upgrade to Speed cypres 2 because at the moment I am not close to activation speeds with even a 360 swoop with WL 2.4 For the hard core its an option, with all that weight they are going to break the 43m/s rate in freefall anyway. btw. I can also fly my wing suit into the ground with cypres activated, Cool is flying a student cypres into the ground with a wing suit. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
