Skill level for Crossfire 2

[ncfitzge 0]

Been reading all the posts that the Crossfire 2 is being compared to the Velocity, Extreme, and Chaos. But they also talk about all of them at a high wingloading. How would the Crossfire 2 fare at a wingloading of 1.0 - 1.05 and an INT level of exprience? Just curious...

Fitz

#148 Sonic Scrat
"Have you ever kissed a rabbit between the eyes?" Woodpecker pulling out his pants pockets to the waitress

[rhys 0]

don't quote me on it but i think nzaerosports recooomends at least a 1.4 wingloading on a xfire?
you should be jumping a square at that sort of wingloading anyway.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[marks 0]

i think you would be better off with a safire.

[billvon 3,058]

A Crossfire 2 is a fairly aggressive design; compare it to the Nitro or the Blade. It's not trimmed as steep as a Katana or as shallow as a Stiletto. It is less stable on opening than a Nitro but more stable than a Stiletto. A Crossfire 2 loaded at 1 to 1 would be sorta odd; it would be like asking for a Katana 170 so you could load it at 1 to 1. That's not what the canopy is designed for.

However, if you were jumping a Safire 2 at 1.5 to 1, and were comfortable/competent under it, a Crossfire 2 at 1.5 to 1 would be a good next canopy.

[brits17 0]

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A Crossfire 2 is a fairly aggressive design; compare it to the Nitro or the Blade. It's not trimmed as steep as a Katana or as shallow as a Stiletto. It is less stable on opening than a Nitro but more stable than a Stiletto. A Crossfire 2 loaded at 1 to 1 would be sorta odd; it would be like asking for a Katana 170 so you could load it at 1 to 1. That's not what the canopy is designed for.

However, if you were jumping a Safire 2 at 1.5 to 1, and were comfortable/competent under it, a Crossfire 2 at 1.5 to 1 would be a good next canopy.

What he said... you won't get any performance advantage out of a fully elliptical so lightly loaded. Safire or Sabre2 is a better option for that wingloading.

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

[ncfitzge 0]

Sweet, thats what I was lookin for. I'm not getting one, it was just a question in general. All these websites talk about how you should have a high wingloading, I was trying to figure out what would happen to them at a low wing loading if anything.

#148 Sonic Scrat
"Have you ever kissed a rabbit between the eyes?" Woodpecker pulling out his pants pockets to the waitress

[BIGUN 1,395]

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All these websites talk about how you should have a high wingloading, I was trying to figure out what would happen to them at a low wing loading if anything.

How you should have a high wing-loading in order to maximize the performance of the canopy design. Not have a high wingloading just to have one and/or without the requisite experience and/or training.

It's not unlike a recent thread about a less than 18 year-old who had never ridden a motorcyle before and a CBR 600 was purchased for him. It's not that he couldn't ride it; it was that it's level of design is intended as a superbike and one can quickly find themselves at 140mph in third gear. If one doesn't know how to enter a curve at those speeds; bad things can happen quickly.

Here's a hyperlink to Icarus' explanation of performance and wing-loading choice.

http://www.icaruscanopies.aero/choosing.htm

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[johnny1488 1]

At a light wingloading, you probaly aren't going to notice much of a difference between the Safire2 and Crossfire2, but the Crossfire2 will turn a bit faster and dive a bit more, characteristics you might not want for a newer jumper. A Safire2 is going to open just as good(great) and give you a lot of performance to begin learning on while still giving you a bit of a larger safety margin my maintaining a shorter recovery arc (not staying in the turn as long and coming out of a dive quicker.)

All this is relative, though. A Safire2 will not keep you from planting yourself in the ground if you start making radical manuevers close to the ground, but it wil give you a better chance at pulling out of a bad situation than a similarly loaded Crossfire2.

You really wont see the performance difference between the 2 canopies until you hit around the 1.4:1 loading mark. At about 1.6 or so you will start to feel the Safire2 performance drop off a bit and the Crossfire2 performace take off.

The Crossfire2 isn't dangerous at a light loading, but probably isn't the best choice when you look at the big picture.

Icarus Canopies also has an un-written rule about the expierience needed to fly the Crossfire2, 500 jumps. But that doesn't mean you couldn't talk a friend into letting you try one, so I would rather you have the facts than say "don't do it".

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[ncfitzge 0]

Sweet Thanks

#148 Sonic Scrat
"Have you ever kissed a rabbit between the eyes?" Woodpecker pulling out his pants pockets to the waitress

[jedeisurf 0]

I myself do not think you should make a statement that a crossfire at light wing loadings is not dangerous. I lost a friend of mine with at a less than a .90 wing loading under a square f-111 canopy. shit happens.
David

[johnny1488 1]

Sorry about your friend, but I dont really see why you would think there is anything wrong with my statement.

I don't know anything about your friends accident, but there is usually more than one factor in an accident. People who jump very light wing loadings have to pay very close aqttention to the winds and weather. Conditions that are good for some canopies might be dangerous for others.

And a square f-111 canopy is very differnt than an all zp elliptical one. It's a pretty vague and random statement to make to say a light wingloading on a crossfire is dangerous.

With the way skydiving accidents are going today, I would say jumping at light wingloadings would be considered far from a problem.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Crossfire2 canopies are awesome canopies and yes there is nothing wrong with jumping them at lighter wing loadings (even though they are intended to be jumped at higher wing loadings). But as others have said, this is not the right canopy for you right now grasshopper. Give it time, get many hundreds of more jumps under you belt and then come back and let's talk about the Crossfire2.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

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Been reading all the posts that the Crossfire 2 is being compared to the Velocity, Extreme, and Chaos. But they also talk about all of them at a high wingloading. How would the Crossfire 2 fare at a wingloading of 1.0 - 1.05 and an INT level of exprience? Just curious...

Fitz

Negative. Compare the performance of a Crossfire2 to that of Stilletto (quick turns), a Katana, a Competition Cobalt, a HiPer Blade, or a Mamba. They don't fly anything like a crossbraced canopy in my opinion. I have jumped Crossfire 2's in several sizes, down to a 99 I believe (Gimps main). The Crossfire 2 is a quicker-turning, slightly-longer-diving Crossfire. The ones I tried opened nice and flew fine, but in no way, shape, or form compared to a crossbraced canopy.

Chuck

[eUrNiCc 0]

I've got a Crossfire1-139 @ 1.15 in my wingsuit rig and I honestly think that the canopy doesn't perform too terribly well at that WL. A Safire at the same WL has significantly better opening and flight characteristics. I'm pro-rated on a safire and I think that it's a great canopy for most people and most purposes.

Egad, A BASE life defiles a bad age.