Elsinore vs Perris for AFF

[jbrinkman 0]

dude, tandems are expensive. goto the cheapest place possible. if you can go somewhere in the midwest and do a static line course, i would do it if it means saving 1000 buckies. when all is said and done, youll have your A licnese anyways before you can fun jump. I got trained at ELOY in arizona. loved every bit of it and learned alot BUT i wish i could have saved money when getting into the sport that way i would have money for a rig and to get my jump numbers up. They are expensive but it is a little too late for me to go back and do it all over. I didnt know of any other places. that and i wanted the most well known place for saftey reasons. but honestly. almost anywhere that is on dz.com will prolly be safe otherwise they wouldnt be open. i have heard of people spending less than 2000 where i spent about 3500 when i was done. you make the choice. if elsinore is cheaper, and closer, go there. who says you cant jump at perris when your done.

Live Love Learn FLY

[stratostar 5]

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almost anywhere that is on dz.com will prolly be safe otherwise they wouldnt be open.

New pair of rose colored glasses your looking through there or what? Ya might want to rethink that way of thinking.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[jbrinkman 0]

Im sure some dz are safer than others but when it comes down to being a student, you are depending on the aircraft, your gear, your instructor, and especially yourself. as long as there isnt too much traffic like at a big dz , it shouldnt be a problem because of seperate landing areas etc. yes things can go wrong and caution whould always be taken. Im not in anyway saying dont do research but dont be to quick to dismiss a small dz. Im just trying to save homeboy some money

Live Love Learn FLY

[kelpdiver 2]

he wasn't dismissing a small DZ. He was taking issue with your statement that any open DZ must be safe or it wouldn't be open.

I don't see much cost savings, though, with your advice. Fly out to the midwest, take a couple days off work, pay for a hotel? Any savings start disappearing in a hurry. And while some people have cranked out 7 (or 15!) jumps in a weekend to do a crash AFF course, I spent considerably longer doing only a couple jumps a weekend. I think the ideal would be a few weeks for AFF. That's done cheapest near home, and also gets you friendly with the people you're going to jump with and trust your life to later.

[stratostar 5]

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he wasn't dismissing a small DZ. He was taking issue with your statement that any open DZ must be safe or it wouldn't be open.

We have a winner, your prize is in the mail.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[bodypilot1 0]

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I think the ideal would be a few weeks for AFF.

Wrong. Most learn better when completing the jumps in a few days, IMO.


Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[jbrinkman 0]

i know that not EVERY OPEN DZ guarantees to not let you die. Thats a given. If the place has a certified program, odds are they are safe enough. unless of course the place looks really sketchy. when it comes down to it. i would just go where your comfortable.

oh yeah about the AFF and how long you should go through it. if you got the money do them as fast as possible. waiting around in between jumps wont do you any good.

Live Love Learn FLY

[billvon 3,070]

>If the place has a certified program . . .

I have never seen a "certified program." No one from USPA comes to a DZ and checks it out to 'certify' it. Many drop zones keep quite close to the USPA syllabus, although I don't know of any that follow it to the letter. (My FJC syllabus, for example, covers about the same stuff but in a different order and with different emphasis.)

Nor does that mean that following that one syllabus is critical. Skydive Chicago has their own way of doing things (Nelson/Bartley wrote it IIRC) and they have a great program.

Most DZ's do indeed have pretty good programs. Unfortunately, a few do not. Often these close down eventually (Sheridan comes to mind) but others continue to operate - so some caution is warranted.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I think the ideal would be a few weeks for AFF.

Wrong. Most learn better when completing the jumps in a few days, IMO.

The Monterey winds and clouds eliminated a choice most days, but I don't think I was prepared to do more than 2 a day until I was confident in my freefall stability (post level 5). I suppose if the circumstances forces me to go again and again I might have benefitted, but I wouldn't have voluntarily done it.

My objection to quick courses may also lie in what's happened to the diving world. Weekend cert courses are not a positive development in diving. More knowledge is retained learning over 3 weeks than over 3 days.

[bodypilot1 0]

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My objection to quick courses may also lie in what's happened to the diving world. Weekend cert courses are not a positive development in diving. More knowledge is retained learning over 3 weeks than over 3 days.

2 totaly different courses........
Scuba does not require muscule memory for stabilization.

Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[kelpdiver 2]

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2 totaly different courses........
Scuba does not require muscule memory for stabilization.

That is the key difference, along with having the luxury of time to think, but the mental knowledge for both is extensive. I'm also not sure what sort of muscle memory is developed in 5 working minutes of freefall.

(for me, apparently very little, so I went to the tunnel and added 30 over two days, along with 5 jumps, to get it worked out)

[JerryBaumchen 1,436]

Hi bill,

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(Sheridan comes to mind)

One thing you never had to worry about at Sheridan was a 'program.'

As I have mentioned before, it was the one dz that I NEVER sent a student to.

JerryBaumchen

[NickDG 23]

I think many of us are guilty of this in the beginning of our jumping careers, but I see now we put too much emphasis on picking a "home" DZ. Before all the internet info and advertising was available, and before there were so many DZs, it was a more natural process. You looked in the yellow pages under "skydiving instruction" and that place automatically became your home DZ.

Now it's more like people are picking a gang to join. We ask, even before we go, are they Crips or Bloods, and what's the "Vibe" like? Well, here's a tip, be your own vibe. And once your instruction period is done float from DZ to DZ. And when you do visit a new DZ just drop your gear bag and lawn chair down and act like you own the joint.

Granted this is easier if you live in an area with DZs up the yin yang like I do, but if you have happy feet early on, you'll meet more great people, more people will get to meet the great you, and you'll get a broader education in the sport. And while there are some great DZOs out there not that many are worthy of swearing some half assed oath of allegiance to . . .

Where to get your initial instruction? It doesn't really matter, it's how you build on that instruction after you're not a student anymore that determines what kind of skydiver you become.

NickD BASE 194

[Casurf1978 0]

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Elsinore can arrange the tunnel work within AFF as well, so that aspect is a wash.

Excellent point. I jump at Snore and Perris, like em both. If I can give you a small piece of advice do some tunnel time. I did 15 min between my AFF 1 and AFF 2 jump and it helped me out immensely. The tunnel is a great tool and you should take advantage of it.

[SkyPixie 0]

I understand that this thread was started a while back but for the sake of newbies who can't get enough fix for this new addiction, here's my story...

I didn't know about this website until I enrolled my AFF course, and didn't get the chance to see Elsinore before I made a decision to take it in Perris.

My first skydive was a tandem. I did it in Perris because one of my friends always jumped at that DZ. That tandem jump was such an awesome experience that I enrolled my AFF a week after, and Perris seemed to be the obvious choice at that time.

After the AFF level 1, the students go separate ways, unless they enrolled with somebody they already knew. Most of the divers that go to Perris belong to a group and they pretty much keep to themselves, probably because they are busy planning their formations. I've been going to the DZ for almost a month now and there were probably two experienced divers who had time to have a brief conversation with me. I consider myself to be very friendly, one who doesn't hesitate to start up a conversation and one who remembers names. The only people who seem available to talk to at Perris are non-jumpers who are there to watch. Though not having a "buddy" at the DZ is not a bad thing, it gets pretty boring when I want to just hang out there in between or after jumps. It can be frustrating too when you can't contain your excitement and your only option is to call somebody who doesn't share the same passion or addiction.

Different instructors have jumped with me on my first four AFF levels. Only one of them remembers my name. I don't blame them because Perris DZ gets about a hundred tandem jumps on a Saturday and probably another hundred or little less on a Sunday. I work on weekdays, so I can only do my AFF on weekends. Once my instructors and I finish a jump, I get to have 2 to 5 minutes for de-briefing and then they are off to do tandems.

I've met more friends in this website than at my DZ. We share stories about being newbies. It seems to me that in smaller DZs, a certain camaraderie exists between newbies, experienced divers and instructors. They have ONE group. At my DZ, there are many groups and it's easy for a newbie to feel out of place. I can't help but envy my newbie friends here that get to dive with the same instructors who are familiar with their weaknesses and actually have time to sit and discuss solutions & fixes before and after each dive.

I've never been to Elsinore DZ but I wish I had, before I enrolled my AFF. In fact, I just might go there this week and see if I can continue my AFF there. Based on my personal preference, I probably would have chosen a smaller & more laid-back DZ for my AFF course. However, I am certain that I still would jump at Perris after I get my license because I like the facility (tunnel, bar, pool, etc.). Perhaps I'll just have to put together a group that I can belong to

Don't worry about fear, worry about the addiction.

[DSE 5]

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I've never been to Elsinore DZ but I wish I had, before I enrolled my AFF. In fact, I just might go there this week and see if I can continue my AFF there. Based on my personal preference, I probably would have chosen a smaller & more laid-back DZ for my AFF course. However, I am certain that I still would jump at Perris after I get my license because I like the facility (tunnel, bar, pool, etc.). Perhaps I'll just have to put together a group that I can belong to

We'd be happy to have you. We have AFF students pretty much each day, and lots of instructors here to work with you. There are several people that are at your current level, so you'd be with a "graduating" class of several.
L/O's abound on the Fri/Sat/Sun, and _always_ someone to jump with on any given day. Joining a group is easy, starting one...just as easy. No cliques or closed groups, most folks are very open and friendly.
C'mon over. Ask for Lob, Cesar, Mark, Misha, me, Jose, CJ, Bob, Brianna,...lots of folks here to get you going/finishing your AFF.

[skygnat 0]

One factor that many would consider more important than the cost of an AFF program alone when comparing DZ's is how much priority a DZ gives to its AFF students to get jumps.

However, I do not have enough experience with different DZ's to know if DZ's are significantly different from each other in this regard, or if they are all pretty much the same.

But in my experience the time investment to complete AFF is a lot bigger than many expect. Schools probably tend to downplay that a bit. I have spent many days waiting for an opportunity to squeeze in a jump between all the tandems and ended up going home at the end of the day without having made a single jump. Throw in a few windy days and its a coin toss if one jumps or not. If I did not make sure I was the first one in line some mornings, I probably would not have jumped that day.

While I am not really complaining, since all in all it was a small investment in time for the sport, it was just a bit aggravating that I was unprepared to spend a couple of months of weekends to get 18 jumps. However it is now much easier to squeeze in several jumps a day, if that is what I wish.

But even though I was aggravated, I could surely understand the DZ's position. If I was the DZ owner I would give high priority to filling my planes with tandem jumpers lined up waiting to fork out a couple of hundred dollars and more for jumps and videos.

While schools like Skydive Spaceland offer a license in a week, few working folks really have the time to do this, but it is a real attractive offer that many who do have the time probably take.

Bottom line is if I was comparing AFF programs, and one school could get me through the program more quickly than the other, that would factor big into my decision, at least more so than the cost of the program itself.

[virgin-burner 1]

elsinore has LisaH and jeewbag; perris does not!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[humbled1 0]

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I understand that this thread was started a while back but for the sake of newbies who can't get enough fix for this new addiction, here's my story...

I didn't know about this website until I enrolled my AFF course, and didn't get the chance to see Elsinore before I made a decision to take it in Perris.

My first skydive was a tandem. I did it in Perris because one of my friends always jumped at that DZ. That tandem jump was such an awesome experience that I enrolled my AFF a week after, and Perris seemed to be the obvious choice at that time.

After the AFF level 1, the students go separate ways, unless they enrolled with somebody they already knew. Most of the divers that go to Perris belong to a group and they pretty much keep to themselves, probably because they are busy planning their formations. I've been going to the DZ for almost a month now and there were probably two experienced divers who had time to have a brief conversation with me. I consider myself to be very friendly, one who doesn't hesitate to start up a conversation and one who remembers names. The only people who seem available to talk to at Perris are non-jumpers who are there to watch. Though not having a "buddy" at the DZ is not a bad thing, it gets pretty boring when I want to just hang out there in between or after jumps. It can be frustrating too when you can't contain your excitement and your only option is to call somebody who doesn't share the same passion or addiction.

Different instructors have jumped with me on my first four AFF levels. Only one of them remembers my name. I don't blame them because Perris DZ gets about a hundred tandem jumps on a Saturday and probably another hundred or little less on a Sunday. I work on weekdays, so I can only do my AFF on weekends. Once my instructors and I finish a jump, I get to have 2 to 5 minutes for de-briefing and then they are off to do tandems.

I've met more friends in this website than at my DZ. We share stories about being newbies. It seems to me that in smaller DZs, a certain camaraderie exists between newbies, experienced divers and instructors. They have ONE group. At my DZ, there are many groups and it's easy for a newbie to feel out of place. I can't help but envy my newbie friends here that get to dive with the same instructors who are familiar with their weaknesses and actually have time to sit and discuss solutions & fixes before and after each dive.

I've never been to Elsinore DZ but I wish I had, before I enrolled my AFF. In fact, I just might go there this week and see if I can continue my AFF there. Based on my personal preference, I probably would have chosen a smaller & more laid-back DZ for my AFF course. However, I am certain that I still would jump at Perris after I get my license because I like the facility (tunnel, bar, pool, etc.). Perhaps I'll just have to put together a group that I can belong to

I have done most of my jumps at Elsinore and a few at Perris as well. Currently I am doing video for a belly 4 way team, Elsinore Rigby. We all have between 350 - 650 jumps. But more importantly 4 out of 5 of us got our A's at Elsinore, which is how the team started. We all started jumping within weeks/months of each other. I think Perris is a great DZ, but I have only been there with other jumpers as a group. So I have no experience meeting new people there jumping by myself. I just know Elsinore is small enough that it is almost difficult NOT to meet new people. From what you posted I really think you would like Elsinore.

I was like you; I did a tandem never planning on becoming a skydiver, but I was hooked right away. I saved up for 2 months, came back to Elsinore and got my A in a month.

Oh yeah, in between my tandem and my AFF I decided to go to the tunnel at Perris. We got in there and the tunnel instructor (who looked kind of familiar, but I had no clue who he was at first) asked me if I had done a tandem recently at Elsinore, I said yes, and he told me he was my instructor! Which he was, I got the video to prove it!! (OK I will admit I was pretty dam nervous during the tandem and the tunnel!!) I don't know how I didn't know who he was, I had only watched the video 300x by then!

Where ever you get your A, it only gets better and better!!

Welcome to Skydiving!!

"Tell ya the truth, I don't think this is a brains kind of operation."

[DSE 5]

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[I have done most of my jumps at Elsinore and a few at Perris as well. Currently I am doing video for a belly 4 way team, Elsinore Rigby. We all have between 350 - 650 jumps. But more importantly 4 out of 5 of us got our A's at Elsinore, which is how the team started. We all started jumping within weeks/months of each other. I think Perris is a great DZ, but I have only been

Been pretty cool watching you guys come up and bust it out, Steve. Thanks again for coming and helping with the wingsuit water experiment.
I think that's what makes S'nore so great; so many people willing to give their time, knowledge, and energy to helping others. It's a "pay it forward" DZ.

[BikerBabe 0]

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4 way team, Elsinore Rigby.

Best. 4-way. Team. Name. EVER!

apologies for the momentary derailment. Now back to your regularly scheduled thread....

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[dorbie 0]

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[I have done most of my jumps at Elsinore and a few at Perris as well. Currently I am doing video for a belly 4 way team, Elsinore Rigby. We all have between 350 - 650 jumps. But more importantly 4 out of 5 of us got our A's at Elsinore, which is how the team started. We all started jumping within weeks/months of each other. I think Perris is a great DZ, but I have only been

Been pretty cool watching you guys come up and bust it out, Steve. Thanks again for coming and helping with the wingsuit water experiment.
I think that's what makes S'nore so great; so many people willing to give their time, knowledge, and energy to helping others. It's a "pay it forward" DZ.

There's a great group of L.O.s who jump at Perris and progressing after your A license graduation is very easy at Perris.

Showing up at other DZs a newbie can have a much harder time doing anything other than solos soon after their A license.

I got on some great 4-ways with coaching at Elsinore and like the vibe there but L.O. availability is patchy.

No matter where you do your AFF you'll still be welcome at other DZs (well you'll be welcome after your A, phone calls and checkout dives will be made after your AFF). One factor may be the availability of coaching jumps and signoffs after AFF but before your A license graduation, and some continuity is advisable there. Ask both dropzones about progression to A license after your AFF.

Be grateful you're spoiled for choice and have a wind tunnel close to both DZs.