hineshpatel 0 #1 December 20, 2005 HELP! My reserve flap opens in free-fly jumps. This has occured since day one. It's a Wings with PDR (160). Here's a pic of the issue --> http://www.brunelskydiving.com/H_reserveflapriding.jpg i) Anyone else suffer from this? (or know of others) ii) What are possible causes? iii) What are solutions to this problem? Cheers! Merry Xmas, H Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #2 December 20, 2005 Holy Cow, was that rig sized for you? Looks like you could fall through your seat if you had a premature opening in a sit."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #3 December 20, 2005 QuoteHoly Cow, was that rig sized for you? Looks like you could fall through your seat if you had a premature opening in a sit. Pretty much anyone can "fall through the hole" if they have a premature opeing in a sit. IMO... a poorly fitting harness will increase the possiblity, but that then doesn't mean that a well fitted harness will eliminate the posibiltiy either. NickD and JanM (??? MakeItHappen ???) have posted some really good commentary on this More back on topic... Hineshpatel, Thanks for the pic. I've had the reserve flap on my Talon94 do that when I get off my belly, but hadn't thought a Wings would do that since its reserve flap is more "Javelin-esque". I don't know if it would work or not... I'd have to have a Wings container in front of me, which I don't right now... but some folk who jump an old Vector2 have or used to put a rubber band around the pin-cover flap and sub-flap to keep the pin-cover flap closed in a sit... sorry if that doesn't make sense, its hard to explain, but easy to show. Ask around your DZ... above all...anything you do, be REALLY REALLY sure it will not slow down or stop your reserve from deploying! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #4 December 20, 2005 Possible causes include putting the absolute biggest reserve that could fit in the container, causing the flap not to reach as far as intended. Similarly if the rigger distributed the bulk in a particular way, or didn't use a short enough loop the same thing could be occuring. It's hard to tell but it looks like a lot of bulk in the top and the PC doesn't look particularly recessed. Edit: What looks like bulk, upon closer inspection, is just how far the rig is from your back. PC still looks kind of high (loose). Possible solution? Try another rigger, or make the current one aware of the problem and see if he has suggestions. And that rig DOES look awfully big on you. It's way up around your helmet.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kturnau 0 #5 December 20, 2005 I actually posted a thread about this problem a few months ago about my wings container. Every time I would go into a sit or was flying on my back the reserve tuck tab would come out exposing the reserve pin. I contacted sunrise rigging about this and they were extremely helpful. Ankie was very responsive and had me take some pictures of my rig for her to see. They ruled out my reserve pack job being the problem so they had me send my container to them to be fixed. I have a 2001 model which had the old style reserve flap. They upgraded my flap and added some stiffners in it and has since then totally fixed the problem. The newer wings models fixed the problem. They have a slightly longer reserve flap with better stiffners. My advice, contact Ankie at sunrise rigging and she will tell you if you need to send it down to them or not. If you need to send it there, they will provide you with a UPS account number so shipping is no charge to you. Sunrise rocks!FALLATIO #13 PELT HEAD #20 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #6 December 20, 2005 First of all, crank down that chest strap and leg straps if you are going to try freeflying. Also, it looks like your rigger might be able to smooth out that pack job to take some bulk out of the top and put more in the center/bottom. That will put more pressure at the closing flap and less in that shoulder area that is buldging a bit. Also, I would recommend calling the manufacturer if that doesn't sort it out. Wings has amazing customer service. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salsa_John 0 #7 December 20, 2005 That is one of the concerns I had before I bought my rig. I went with a Vector for that reason and others "You did what?!?!" MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #8 December 20, 2005 I have had the same thing happen with a '2005' model of a Wings container... There is however an elastic that holds the top flap (reserve) to the other flaps..... So in a nutshell you get the tuck tab coming loose occasionally when sitflying.... Is this really a concern?........I'm not sure Why would this last tuck tab occasionally coming loose be a safety issue? Maybe if the pressure inside the last flap 'scoop' (secured by the elastic) puts enough pressure on the system to pull the reserve pin......(unlikely I think)....but I cant see much 'danger' beyond that... Enlighten me if you have an opinion.... At this point it happens so occasionally...... that its not even a concern for me The bungee on the tab trick is a fix ......just use something that really doesnt make it 'difficult' for the last flap to come loose........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snafuhere 0 #9 December 20, 2005 I have seen more Wings containers like that. The problem is lack of stifener in the flap, see kturnau's post. I think it's not related to reserve size/pack. https://www.facebook.com/1skydive/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #10 December 20, 2005 That rig fits you terribly! To me, the fit is a much bigger concern than the top flat popping open... _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #11 December 20, 2005 Don't take advice from an internet rigger suggesting that you make an unauthorized modification to your TSO'd reserve system. Contact the manufacturer yourself or have a trusted rigger near your DZ do it. If the rigger that packed the rig the way it currently is, has seen the problem and the fit and hasn't offered to fix it, I'd be leary of that rigger.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #12 December 21, 2005 QuoteI have had the same thing happen with a '2005' model of a Wings container... There is however an elastic that holds the top flap (reserve) to the other flaps..... So in a nutshell you get the tuck tab coming loose occasionally when sitflying.... Is this really a concern?........I'm not sure Why would this last tuck tab occasionally coming loose be a safety issue? Maybe if the pressure inside the last flap 'scoop' (secured by the elastic) puts enough pressure on the system to pull the reserve pin......(unlikely I think)....but I cant see much 'danger' beyond that... Enlighten me if you have an opinion.... At this point it happens so occasionally...... that its not even a concern for me The bungee on the tab trick is a fix ......just use something that really doesnt make it 'difficult' for the last flap to come loose........ I like the redundancy Sunrise has added to the reserve pin cover flap. Even if it comes untucked, it cannot come open to expose the pin, due to the elastic. To the original poster: Talk to the manufacturer. Sunrise Manufacturing has excellent customer service. Ankie will help you. The rig does look a bit big on you, however. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hineshpatel 0 #13 December 21, 2005 Agreed - I definitely would never make any mods myself... Regarding the reserve bulk, 2 different riggers have done the last 2 re-packs, each being notified of this problem and neither being able to solve it by adjusting bulk. Back to the size of the rig, I think that could be a poor photo coupled with loose straps (it was taken from my 1st free-fly coached jump). This may be a better pic to judge the size: http://www.skydiving.co.uk/Gallery/Weekends/12112005/Picture19.jpg Surely a 170 sized rig is going to be large anyway??? Thanks for all the help guys - keep it coming! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #15 December 21, 2005 When they said it was large they were talking about the length of the MLW on your body and the laterals. The photo linked does nothing to help on that issue, a better pic would be a side profile with the rig packed and you standing geared up.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #16 December 22, 2005 QuoteSurely a 170 sized rig is going to be large anyway??? Not really I have a Wings sized for a 170 and it looks tiny on me ( well length wise anyway) ..... to the point that I am going to get a mod done to help me stop falling through 'the hole' when sitflying ..........in case of a premature deployment. I already have had a premature deployment whilst freeflying ( not on this rig).......they can /do happen even if they are packed correctly...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #18 December 24, 2005 Main Lift WebYesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NelKel 0 #19 December 24, 2005 Yeah, I had the same shit. It is not so much the tuck tab, as if you will notice the blurp or the hump your reservce causes at just below shoulders. Your rigger is not placing the canopy in the D-bag properly thus leading to the D-bag not being placed in the tray properly.I discussed this at length with Ankie and Collin. Basically what we came up with is ( Tell your rigger to stop packing Wings like a Javilen), and read to the wings manual" I brought my shit strait to Collin in Z-hills, I swear I have never had an issue with it since! Strait up! I always tell the rigger to look how tight my shit looks, and to take note. I think it is worth mentioning I had a cut away and reserve deployment in this configuration before, it worked fine!_________________________________________ Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #20 December 24, 2005 Maybe the previous owner asked his rigger to pack ten pounds of s****** into a five pound bag (i.e. a 170 reserve into a container designed for a 135). Only god's gift to rigging can make that combination look pretty. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyL 0 #21 December 27, 2005 Amen bro! Have experienced many 'overstuffed' rigs. One of the resulting problems is tuck flaps just don't tuck as well,stiffeners warp and break. Having dealt with a gear store that would regularly allow a person to buy the absolute largest canopies for the smallest container, I have also dealt with the repairs due to packing 10 lbs of s*** in a 5 lb bag. One of my favorites is a complete Aerodyne rig with Aerodyne canopies and all. Will they ever get the canopy/container pack volume figured out? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hineshpatel 0 #22 December 28, 2005 The container was bought new by myself as a complete rig direct from the Wings factory for my measurements with a SABRE2 170 / PDR160 combination. My rigger, who I trust entirely has followed the Wings-prescribed packing method, yet this has not solved the reserve flap opening during head-up freefly. During a recent visit to Skydive Spain I met a fellow Wings owner with an identical problem. A freefly coach out there told us he had also seen this issue with Wings containers many times before. In the meantime, Ankie & Sunrise Manufacturing (Wings) will be taking a look at, and hopefully rectifying any potential faults surrounding the reserve flap. I'll keep everyone posted with the outcome. Much appreciated for all the opinions! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyL 0 #23 December 28, 2005 Good job.Sounds like you are going through what i would consider,the proper channels, to resolve your gear issue. Best of luck. Kuddos to your rigger for his/her rigging expertise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
