riggerrob 643 #26 January 1, 2006 BUT realize you are breaking a few rules if you were to jump that here in the USA. I do not know what the Canadian rules are. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rules about Cypres maintenance and retirement are exactly the same in Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Britain, Canada, Denmark, France, New Zealand, South Africa, USA, etc. AADs must be maintained IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MANUFACTURERS' INSTRUCTIONS. Since not even the FAA is bright enough to write a TSO standard for AADs, they fob the responsibility off on AAD manufacturers. In most countries, if you ignore maintenance instructions written by: Cessna, Lycoming, Bendix, Slick, Air Tec, etc., you are violating a federal air regulation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,356 #27 January 1, 2006 Hi Rob, YOU DO NOT WANT THE FAA WRITING A TSO STANDARD FOR AN AAD. End of discussion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dbattman 0 #28 January 1, 2006 Call a Canadian rigger and ask if it is still legal. Your regs are different than the predominantly US population of DZ.com. As far as being safe, jump it and let us know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #29 January 1, 2006 Hee! Hee! I am a Canadian Rigger A and Rigger Instructor. CSPA frowns upon jumping AADs that are outside of the AAD manufacturer's maintenance schedule. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dbattman 0 #30 January 1, 2006 Alright, I just haven't seen a definite 'you're illegal' or 'you're legal until...' Perhaps I missed it. For my own understanding tell me if I've got this right. OK, so if it's expired last month the tolerance of the lifespan of 12 years + 3 months. That would still make it OK from Airtec's regulations for another two months or the end of the current 120 day pack cycle. If you are on a 120 day pack cycle that would make you OK to jump it until your next repack. If you're on a 6 or 12 month cycle I take it you have to have your rig opened, take the Cypres out and get a repack before the pack cycle is up? It's just that more of these Cypres 1's are going to be expiring soon and it would be good to have a general understanding of where that puts the jumper. This would make a good Safety article. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #31 January 1, 2006 Air Tec is kind of anal about that, advising riggers not to repack rigs with Cypri that will expire (battery life, factory inspections or retirement) before the end of the 120 or 180 day reserve repack cycle. In other words, if your Cypres batteries are due fo replacement in 43 days (but your rigger does not have any spare batteries) you revert to a 43 day repack cycle. In the real world, we have to cut owners a little slack, so CSPA policy says that if you must open a reserve - to work on a Cypres (i.e. replace batteries) - then the original rigger can reclose the reserve without a full I&R. In other words, you don't need a full repack, if you take it to the last rigger who signed your reserve packing data card. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #32 January 1, 2006 QuoteIf you are going to jump, leave it off. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That logic was part of the last fatality in Pitt Meadows. Much as riggers hate advising jumpers to "bend" the rules, it is far safer to turn on a slightly overdue Cypres than to jump without. Wearing an AAD, but not turning it on is the ultimate in foolishness. Just look at Tom Piras! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NelKel 0 #33 January 1, 2006 I'm not going to debate you on AAD's or RSL's for that matter. I think, but have no proof, that it might misread or malfunction possably due to a weak battery and misfire._________________________________________ Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #34 January 1, 2006 ...it might misread or malfunction possibly due to a weak battery and misfire. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not quite sure where your irrational, illogical fear of AADs comes from. Let's use a little common sense here, tinged with historical examples. Most AADs are designed with fail-safe concepts in mind. In other words, if an AAD gets confused, it is not supposed to fire. Specifically, Cypres are designed to fail their start-up check if their batteries are weak. You get an "8998" error code for a few seconds, then it shuts itself off. The first (or second) time a person died while wearing a Cypres was, on a cold day, with a 3.5 year old battery (too old according to the Cypres 1 manual). There was just enough voltage in the battery to do the start up routine, but when they took it outside and cold-soaked it, the battery no longer had enough voltage to fire. So that was a case of a weak battery not firing. There are two examples of weak Cypres batteries resulting in "no fire." The incidence of Cypres mis-firing is rare. Most of those cases involved static electricity or being too close to radio transmitters. Air Tec addressed that problem with improved EMI shielding, circa 2000. Similarly, Vigil recalled their first batch of AADs to improve EMI shielding. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NelKel 0 #33 January 1, 2006 I'm not going to debate you on AAD's or RSL's for that matter. I think, but have no proof, that it might misread or malfunction possably due to a weak battery and misfire._________________________________________ Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #34 January 1, 2006 ...it might misread or malfunction possibly due to a weak battery and misfire. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not quite sure where your irrational, illogical fear of AADs comes from. Let's use a little common sense here, tinged with historical examples. Most AADs are designed with fail-safe concepts in mind. In other words, if an AAD gets confused, it is not supposed to fire. Specifically, Cypres are designed to fail their start-up check if their batteries are weak. You get an "8998" error code for a few seconds, then it shuts itself off. The first (or second) time a person died while wearing a Cypres was, on a cold day, with a 3.5 year old battery (too old according to the Cypres 1 manual). There was just enough voltage in the battery to do the start up routine, but when they took it outside and cold-soaked it, the battery no longer had enough voltage to fire. So that was a case of a weak battery not firing. There are two examples of weak Cypres batteries resulting in "no fire." The incidence of Cypres mis-firing is rare. Most of those cases involved static electricity or being too close to radio transmitters. Air Tec addressed that problem with improved EMI shielding, circa 2000. Similarly, Vigil recalled their first batch of AADs to improve EMI shielding. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buzi 0 #35 January 2, 2006 Well looks like I got a lot of answers. First of all what is a Troll (there was someone saying that I could be one because of my post). Secondly, it is 180 day repack cylce in canada. Thirdly , not all canadian dropzones are CSPA, therefore have different rules. All I wanted to know was if it was safe to turn it on. I just couldn't see the cypres turning into a pumpkin after 12 years and three months. I mean if it counts down fine it should be good(like others have stated). Thanks for all the input. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ripcord4 0 #36 January 2, 2006 It won't explode if you turn it on, you know! And I am certain there is a lot of safety margin built into it as with most mechanical devices. Batteries, etc, do not quit working at their expiration dates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mickochet 0 #37 January 8, 2006 My understanding here in the US is that if the cypress is in date when the reserve is repacked then it is legal to use until the next time the reserve has to be packed. Since we are on a 120 day pack cycle in the US the 12 years and 3 months allows for you to use it until the next repack.If you never fall down you aren't trying hard enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #38 January 8, 2006 QuoteWell it expired about a month ago, wanna do a nice chilly winter jump in Canada. Is it safe to turn it on, or do I just leave it off. Thanks Blue skies _________________________________________ Have you read the owner's manual for your Cypres? All you need to know, is there. They are quite specific and rather adament in regards to Cypres. edit to add: You do have 3-months +/- for the 4/8 yr. ck. as well as the expriation of the 12-yr. life of the Cypres. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #39 January 11, 2006 According to AirTech GmbH Design and Testing Report, the Cypres is good for 12 years 6 months from date of manufacture and maintenance has a 6-month window The User Guide on the web site says 12 years and maintenence has a 13-month window.... WTF?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
ripcord4 0 #36 January 2, 2006 It won't explode if you turn it on, you know! And I am certain there is a lot of safety margin built into it as with most mechanical devices. Batteries, etc, do not quit working at their expiration dates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mickochet 0 #37 January 8, 2006 My understanding here in the US is that if the cypress is in date when the reserve is repacked then it is legal to use until the next time the reserve has to be packed. Since we are on a 120 day pack cycle in the US the 12 years and 3 months allows for you to use it until the next repack.If you never fall down you aren't trying hard enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #38 January 8, 2006 QuoteWell it expired about a month ago, wanna do a nice chilly winter jump in Canada. Is it safe to turn it on, or do I just leave it off. Thanks Blue skies _________________________________________ Have you read the owner's manual for your Cypres? All you need to know, is there. They are quite specific and rather adament in regards to Cypres. edit to add: You do have 3-months +/- for the 4/8 yr. ck. as well as the expriation of the 12-yr. life of the Cypres. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #39 January 11, 2006 According to AirTech GmbH Design and Testing Report, the Cypres is good for 12 years 6 months from date of manufacture and maintenance has a 6-month window The User Guide on the web site says 12 years and maintenence has a 13-month window.... WTF?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
