Fool proof pilot chute / always to be cocked?

[Liemberg 0]

It was there, once - for I have seen it and did read a description... but this is several years ago.

How it worked?

The curved pin - the one you need to close the container - was connected to the kill-line.
When the parachute opened (and the PC collapsed) the kill-line that collapsed the PC also pulled the pin inside the tunnel in the bridle.
Then when you packed it, the only way the pin would surface again was to have the PC cocked.

Since you can't close a container with a curved pin that is still inside the bridle, this is/was fool proof IMO - and though it is certain that they can come up with bigger fools, at least they will have a run for their money with this one...
I can think of several reasons why this sounds like a good idea but isn't in reality (wear and tear, a nuisance to use, etcetera) but I don't know.


All I know is that I hardly see this setup and haven't seen it in any newer rig lately. Of course it could be that it is patented by one of the smaller manufacturers and therefore hardly ever seen on more popular rigs...

Anyone who knows why?
Any manufacturer who still offers this?

Just curious.

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[efex 0]

i see your point, but to be honest, what could be more difficult or full proof than looking at a little window and checking the colour of the kill line?

Warwick University Skydiving Club

[Liemberg 0]

  Quote

what could be more difficult or full proof than looking at a little window and checking the colour of the kill line?

There's a two letter difference between full proof and fool proof. Small, but significant.

When given the choice, I prefer fool proof.

And BTW: Not all PC's with a kill-line have this window...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[phoenixlpr 0]

From a different thread:

  Quote

I had a beginner prone kill line PC. The pin was pulled back inside the bridle, so you could not close your container if you PC has not been cocked before.

It had a downside too: you had a chance that the pin get stuck and spin up.....and not killed... It has happened 10-15 times from 160 dives.

Do you still want to have it?

It was built by Paratrade/Hungary. It think the company is out of business.

[diablopilot 2]

It was manufactured by Precision Aerodynamics.

May have fallen out of favor since no container manufacturer supplied it with their rig, and they were more complex to build. Good idea though.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[alexey 6]

I sow that on one of my friends Racer rig sometime ago.
I asked him to give me his rig with new Katana for test, was trying to pack it, and was ready to scream - "hey man, you lost your pin somewhere" :)

Lexa

[skybytch 273]

  Quote

It was manufactured by Precision Aerodynamics.

It was called the "Life Line."

Good idea until the kill line shrunk. Then the pin didn't want to come out of the right hole anymore.

[phoenixlpr 0]

My problem was it didn't always want to get in there....

So it isn't as perfect as someone thinks.

[JohnRich 4]

It's called a spring-loaded pilot chute with a ripcord activation.

[Liemberg 0]

  Quote

Good idea until the kill line shrunk. Then the pin didn't want to come out of the right hole anymore.

Pity.

I thought so already, since it appeared to be so clever yet didn't become widespread...

When I saw it I had a PC with a bungee.

Although it opens a whole new 'can of worms' (like making short delays 'interesting' and F111 deteriorating faster than the bungee which would leave your PC cocked), I always liked it better than the kill-line.

But that's because I'm in essence a K.I.S.S. person...

  Quote

John Rich: It's called a spring-loaded pilot chute with a ripcord activation.

You collapse it with a ripcord?

BTW John, your rig stil has tapewells and a Jesus cord?

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[riggermick 7]

Good idea until the kill line shrunk. Then the pin didn't want to come out of the right hole anymore.

[grue 1]

  Quote

  Quote

It was manufactured by Precision Aerodynamics.

It was called the "Life Line."

Good idea until the kill line shrunk. Then the pin didn't want to come out of the right hole anymore.

So why not use HMA or something that doesn't shrink?

cavete terrae.

[justinb138 0]

  Quote

  Quote

  Quote

It was manufactured by Precision Aerodynamics.

It was called the "Life Line."

Good idea until the kill line shrunk. Then the pin didn't want to come out of the right hole anymore.

So why not use HMA or something that doesn't shrink?

Wings uses kevlar in their kill-line pcs.

The only reason that I could think of for not using HMA or Vectran would be that they seem like they would wear out much quicker.

[grue 1]

HMA essentially is kevlar.

cavete terrae.

[koppel 4]

Saw someone with one of these have a total when the kill-line broke leaving the pin in place and the container shut!!

Still want one???

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Why could the kill-line break? Let me guess: poor gear maintenance?

[Liemberg 0]

  Quote

HMA essentially is kevlar.

And kill lines "essentially" rub each jump at high speeds over a short distance inside the bridle-tunnel...

Anyone tried Vectran? Or does that have the same downsides? (From what I gather there's less shrinkage and the same break characteristics... but if I remember my Pointer correctly, lines tend to break at knots - which is not good in this case, because that is where the pin is...)

(Again - it is not that I want something in the fear I'm so demented that I start to forget things. My kill line PC's have no window yet 'forgetting to cock' should surface through the method of PC folding. But "all other things being equal", a system where a potential source of malfunction is eliminated sounds better. Then again, I don't think that freeflyers are "en masse" retro-fitting bellybands either...)

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[Shark 0]

  Quote

  Quote

  Quote

It was manufactured by Precision Aerodynamics.

It was called the "Life Line."

Good idea until the kill line shrunk. Then the pin didn't want to come out of the right hole anymore.

So why not use HMA or something that doesn't shrink?

Why not use a non-collapsable PC?

[hookitt 1]

  Quote

Why not use a non-collapsable PC?

Do you use a non-collapsible pilot chute? Why not?

====

The best way to make sure the pilot chute is cocked is to ... cock the pilot chute. It has 2 positions. One that works, one that doesn't. Use the one that works.

If anyone sees a jumper confused about how a collapsible pilot chute works, show them. Have them verify the pilot chute is cocked before putting the bag in to the container.

Have them ask the question, "Is this pilot chute ready to do what it's designed to?" Make sure that answer is yes.

That is all

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[ernokaikkonen 0]

>Why not use a non-collapsable PC?

Because they seriously degrade the flight performance of canopies.

Not such a big deal with big student canopies, but it becomes quite noticeable in the sub-200sqft range, and with canopies smaller than, say, 170-150sqft you are going to have trouble landing them due to lack of airspeed.

[Shark 0]

  Quote

Because they seriously degrade the flight performance of canopies.

No shit!

[Shark 0]

  Quote

  Quote

Why not use a non-collapsable PC?

Do you use a non-collapsible pilot chute? Why not?

====

The best way to make sure the pilot chute is cocked is to ... cock the pilot chute. It has 2 positions. One that works, one that doesn't. Use the one that works.

If anyone sees a jumper confused about how a collapsible pilot chute works, show them. Have them verify the pilot chute is cocked before putting the bag in to the container.

Have them ask the question, "Is this pilot chute ready to do what it's designed to?" Make sure that answer is yes.

That is all

Exactly, but it's not idiot-proof. Kind of like the guy who demo'd a Sabre1. Said that it took too long to open. Prior to his next jump somebody discovered that he never cocked the PC.

[ernokaikkonen 0]

  Quote

If anyone sees a jumper confused about how a collapsible pilot chute works, show them. Have them verify the pilot chute is cocked before putting the bag in to the container.

Have them ask the question, "Is this pilot chute ready to do what it's designed to?" Make sure that answer is yes.

A related point:

The answer to the question "How do you know this pilot chute is cocked?" is not "There's a coloured bit showing in the window" but rather "Because when hanging the pilot chute from the bridle, the apex of the pilot chute is hanging on level or below the skirt.*)".

Apex: The highest part of the PC, where the handle attaches
Skirt: Where the fabric meets the mesh

*) Applicable to pilot chutes made to the RWS specs that most manufacturers follow. PdF pilot chutes, for example, are cocked when the "apex of the pilot chute is hanging not quite on level but only slightly above the skirt."

[mattjw916 2]

A quick flick of the wrist inflating the PC before folding can also confirm that it is cocked sufficiently. It's not the best method of course but this plus a fixed routine when packing (i.e. always cocking the PC after the canopy has been cocooned and placed on the floor) has kept me from ever forgetting to do it.

This thread has way too much talk about cock in it though, so I'm outta here.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080