Thow away a 13 year old cypres? why?

[F16Driver 0]

It's not like you need to jump with an AAD. When one expired on one of my older rigs, I just took it out. I'll accept the risk until I get another one, maybe.

Some DZ's won't let you jump without an AAD, so just a head's up on that. I do a lot of jumping out of a friend's Cessna, so I don't have that problem.

"I promise, I will never die."

[huey 0]

I have'nt been jumping long (obviously) but most of you sound like a bunch of pussies.
Always worried about regs and rules and recomendations.
It may sound bizarre but I break more FAR's before breakfast than most people do all day and have the best record in my industry doing so (no I'm not telling you) than anyone in the world .
I'm not bragging but I do some scary shit!
Like I said I didn't mean to strike a nerve with all you Bankers,Lawyers and school teachers out there but what is the big deal?
It's an altitude encoder with a cutter . What's wrong with asking a question?
Lay off the caffine Yuppies!

"The Dude abides" - Jeff Labowski

[GTAVercetti 0]

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I have'nt been jumping long (obviously) but most of you sound like a bunch of pussies.
Always worried about regs and rules and recomendations.
It may sound bizarre but I break more FAR's before breakfast than most people do all day and have the best record in my industry doing so (no I'm not telling you) than anyone in the world .
I'm not bragging but I do some scary shit!
Like I said I didn't mean to strike a nerve with all you Bankers,Lawyers and school teachers out there but what is the big deal?
It's an altitude encoder with a cutter . What's wrong with asking a question?
Lay off the caffine Yuppies!

God. You are so awesome. Can I be your friend?

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[huey 0]

Thanks!
Why yes you can
Glad to see someone out there took the cypres out of their ASS!!

"The Dude abides" - Jeff Labowski

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Thanks!
Why yes you can
Glad to see someone out there took the cypres out of their ASS!!

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[airtwardo 7]

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I'm not bragging but I do some scary shit!

***

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Guest 1010]

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I have'nt been jumping long (obviously) but most of you sound like a bunch of pussies.
Always worried about regs and rules and recomendations.
It may sound bizarre but I break more FAR's before breakfast than most people do all day and have the best record in my industry doing so (no I'm not telling you) than anyone in the world .
I'm not bragging but I do some scary shit!
Like I said I didn't mean to strike a nerve with all you Bankers,Lawyers and school teachers out there but what is the big deal?
It's an altitude encoder with a cutter . What's wrong with asking a question?
Lay off the caffine Yuppies!


(Eric Howe, strazi, Florida, Punta Gorda, Pilot, DZ Labelle)

Wow, that gave me a laugh. I haven't been called a pussy in quite a while. But I won't be found on a plane with you either. (I owe beer someplace for that.) A 4-jump wonder. Good luck, dude

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[Liemberg 0]

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Could there be an extension cycle on the horizion soon? We'll see!

Funny that you say that and that I have heard several other master riggers say exactly the same.
(not all of them willing to go on record of course... are they all on airtec's payroll or what?)

Also funny to see the 'four jump wonder' who started the thread get an enormous amount of flack for stating the obvious.

An extension of the life cycle would be a marketing decision, just as IMO the "12 years trash it" directive was.

Did airtec publish in any sort of controllable way their 'research' into the lifespan of their product? Because this 12 years limit wasn't their position when they sold me mine, so something must have changed on the way.
What was the primary failure they saw when running these tests (i.e. They all started to fire to soon, potentially killing your fellow skydivers or they all failed to fire, potentially not saving you...)
Nobody knows, but since they issued a serious warning (that very conveniently also means that if you don't want to jump without an AAD you will have to buy a new one) we should believe them on their true blue eyes...

The idea that this 'good to go & excellent' life saving product is jumpable on one day (does have a self test, doesn't it?) and on the next day should be removed from your rig "and if you don't you are doomed" is simply laughable.

I could live with - "we don't service anymore, put fresh batteries in according to schedule and watch self test on start up; good to go untill test fails - proceed at your own risk"

What is happening now with the FAR is ludicrous.

Maybe a fresh look from a 'four jump wonder' is just what it takes.

And I know this post probably will provoke rhetorics about the financial value of my life.

Then again, if I usually responded in a positive manner when told what to do, I wouldn't be skydiving, now would I?

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[btucker 0]

Many electronic components, such as capacitors have limited lives. I would also think their is a limit on the effective/economic life of the PCB, solder, button and cables.

Remember that this thing was probably designed in the late 80's. Since then there has been tremendous advances in electronics, hence the longer live of newer AADs.


It is without doubt that anyone using any AAD significantly outside of the manufactures recommendation is endangering others.

Blue Dreams Benno

[bob.dino 1]

They're already running some of the components at 120% of their design lifetime. That's a quantifiable risk that increases - probably exponentially - with the age of the device.

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The idea that this 'good to go & excellent' life saving product is jumpable on one day (does have a self test, doesn't it?) and on the next day should be removed from your rig "and if you don't you are doomed" is simply laughable.

Yes it is. Which is why they never said it. They said that they couldn't guarantee correct operation of the device beyond the 12yr lifespan, not that it would suddenly & magically fail.

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I could live with - "we don't service anymore, put fresh batteries in according to schedule and watch self test on start up; good to go untill test fails - proceed at your own risk"

Self-tests can only test so much - each Cypres doesn't come with a built-in pressure chamber that never needs calibrating. So the fact that a Cypres passes its self-test doesn't mean much more than the battery is charged and none of the cables are broken. Which is the reason you need servicing - to check that all the sensors are still operating within design tolerances.

Airtec's reputation is based primarily on the fact that the Cypres fires when it's supposed to and doesn't when it shouldn't. If they allow out-of-tolerance Cypreses to be operated until they fail, they'll destroy their reputation.

I'm sure there are plenty of commercial considerations at play for Airtec, but absent those, there are still a number of sound engineering reasons for a lifetime on the Cypres.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Many electronic components, such as capacitors have limited lives. I would also think their is a limit on the effective/economic life of the PCB, solder, button and cables.

Remember that this thing was probably designed in the late 80's. Since then there has been tremendous advances in electronics, hence the longer live of newer AADs.

aye. If Airtec drops the 12 year expiration, it seems more likely to happen with the Cypres2. If Vigil makes it past 5 or 6 years without needing to implement schedule maintenence.

Reading the link posted, Airtec decided in 2000 that based on the 8 year inspections, a 10 year inspection was not needed, and the lifespan would be 12. If it were all a profit decision, why drop the 10?

[daniel_owen_uk 0]

I think it's a little naive to think that ANY company makes decisions that aren't in part made on the basis of profit.

__________________

BOOM Headshot

[airtwardo 7]

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I think it's a little naive to think that ANY company makes decisions that aren't in part made on the basis of profit.

***

Damn them for trying to make a profit!

They should GIVE them away!!!

Just like I do with how I make MY living!!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[diablopilot 2]

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I have'nt been jumping long (obviously) but most of you sound like a bunch of pussies.
Always worried about regs and rules and recomendations.
It may sound bizarre but I break more FAR's before breakfast than most people do all day and have the best record in my industry doing so (no I'm not telling you) than anyone in the world .
I'm not bragging but I do some scary shit!
Like I said I didn't mean to strike a nerve with all you Bankers,Lawyers and school teachers out there but what is the big deal?
It's an altitude encoder with a cutter . What's wrong with asking a question?
Lay off the caffine Yuppies!

Yeah, so I got dibs on 3 years or 500 jumps before Mr. Wuffo here gets bored with the sport.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[PhreeZone 20]

Have you ever asked for the information you seek from Airtec or SSK? I found talking to some employees from SSK to be extremely enlightining in terms of the life cycle.

The self-test that the Cypres has checks voltage, checks continunity and basically that nothing fell off the circuit board. When it goes back for its maintence they cold soak it, they seperately check the cutters to make sure they have had no microscopice cracks, they cut off a lot of control heads and replace them due to buttons wearing out/becoming soft. They also replace cracked LCD screens, cracked cases, damaged wires, and the really big thing is update the sensors. They have a tight QA process and the unit has to have every sensor pass every test or they replace the sensors. If a sensor passes everything but the cold soak test, they replace it even though you will probally never be jumping when its at the tempatures they freeze or bake the units at but it still has to pass at those levels to be in the QA process.

Here is a great document showing what maintence is done: http://www.cypres-usa.com/english_maintenance.pdf

Any organic component used in electronics degrades over time. The military has life times on a lot of their equipment just because of this reason. The degrading can be expected to be at a certian rate to X time then beyond that its just not predictable enough so they retire it even if it may be in perfect condition still.

As a side note, at least some jump planes in the US are also flown as Part 135 on lease and their ticket cost is not much more then a normal ticket.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Hackb431 0]

Ok I just had to throw my opinion in this one. I agree w/ the original poster that there sounds like some BS to the 12 year lifespan.

But his way of presenting that information and opinion leaves a bit to be desired. Insulting others and proudly stating that you continuously break FAR's worries me. I applaud your current safety record but when something does happen and it is found that you knowingly violate the rules.....

Either way my grandpa still has his original telephone purchased back in the day and it works like a charm. I personally have a Cypress that is coming up on it's 12 yr. I will jump it till I need to have it legally removed.

My personal feelings that it is safe to jump should not be imposed on a rigger (who could lose his ticket) or a Pilot that could lose his lisence

HackB A.K.A. "Puppy"

[riggerrob 643]

Yeah, so I got dibs on 3 years or 500 jumps before Mr. Wuffo here gets bored with the sport.

[riggerrob 643]

Wow, that gave me a laugh. I haven't been called a pussy in quite a while. But I won't be found on a plane with you either. (I owe beer someplace for that.) A 4-jump wonder. Good luck, dude

[hookitt 1]

Pussy

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[riggerrob 643]

Chicken!

[davelepka 4]

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I have'nt been jumping long (obviously) but most of you sound like a bunch of pussies.
Always worried about regs and rules and recomendations

Thats harsh.

The only reason I keep my rig in date is to protect the pilots certificate. Do I actaully get a repack every 120 days? Maybe, maybe not, but my repack card and seal indicate that it's in date, and in the case of an incident, the pilot's certificate is safe as far as my paperwork is concerned.

Sometimes it's about other people. If that makes me sound like a pussy, then so be it.

What's your excuse for sounding like an asshole?

[MooChooser 0]

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I could live with - "we don't service anymore, put fresh batteries in according to schedule and watch self test on start up; good to go untill test fails - proceed at your own risk"

Its not just your own risk though. Depending on what kind of malfunctions may occur after 13, 15, 20 years. We may see spontaneous firings or who knows what.

That kind of thing can bring a plane down if it happens at the wrong time.

Also, if we dont allow AAD manufacturers to make profit, noones going to make them anymore.

I think that the thread starter is not who he appears to be. This is a wind up.

[hookitt 1]

It's on!

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[riggerrob 643]

Cypres service life cannot be extended beyond 12 years because no-one outside the factory (Airtec or SSK) has the spare parts or specifications to overhaul Cypri.
Airtec is never going to share the finer points of their proprietory tech specs with anyone outside the company.
This problem arose a decade or so ago when Steve Snider died and SSE stopped building Sentinel AADs. For a few years, "some guy in Texas" overhauled (2 year inspections, replace explosive cartridges, lights, batteries, broken cables, etc.) Sentinels, but that business gradually faded.
The last time I saw a Sentinel - worn by a student - was in 1999 and that DZO has retired from the business. No-one has asked me to pack a reserve containing a Sentinel in this century.
Sure, some electronics geek might be able to convince the FAA that he is qualified to inspect, repair, etc. Cypres, but that is a huge investment for a tiny market = not profitable.

[huey 0]

OK everybody, after a good nights sleep reading what I wrote last night I was deffinitely a JERK. My experience as a pilot and operator has no relavence here.
This is a skydiving forum not a pilots forum.
So I appolagize to all the experienced jumpers out there I insulted.
The reality is I have 4 jumps no malfunctions,never had a freind get hurt or die in this sport so I was way too arrogent about something I know nothing about.
And I probably pissed off alot of potential freinds in a sport I plan on sticking with.

That being said. Some of you seem to be wound a little tight. Maybe I will be too after some experience.
Maybe I'm not tight enough.
Sorry.

"The Dude abides" - Jeff Labowski