your input

[shermanator 4]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=32040&d=1

ok, now that I have my A, it will be cheaper in the long run if i get my own gear, rather than pay $80 + a day to rent gear. ..

I'd like your thhoughts/opinions on this gear that is up for sell. with little i know, the cypress is only good for like 2 more years, then i would have to buy a new one? correcrt me if i am wrong. Thanks for any advice given.

P.S. "Ask your instructor he knows best" <--i know i know, but it is nice to get second opinions too, from other experienced jumpers.

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[IanHarrop 42]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=32040&d=1

ok, now that I have my A, it will be cheaper in the long run if i get my own gear, rather than pay $80 + a day to rent gear. ..

If you're going to make the leaps then getting gear will pay off

the cypress is only good for like 2 more years, then i would have to buy a new one? correct me if i am wrong.

You can replace the Cypres when its time with a new one, a used one, or a Vigil, or by then an Argus


"Ask your instructor he knows best" <--i know i know, but it is nice to get second opinions too, from other experienced jumpers. Good thing you know this!

Without knowing your weight, canopy skills, or canopy experience its difficult to suggest that a 210 main/reserve is a good size for you.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[GravityGirl 0]

You need to find out what size the harness is. Have you selected 210s as your canopy size? What is your weight?

The price is right on the container.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[shermanator 4]

doh! i was gonna put this information then forgot...

I am 170 pounds, about 5'7", been jumping on a 260 main. out of 26 jumps, and only 3 of them a plf.

*waiting for the shark to pop on and yell at me*

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[GravityGirl 0]

Do you have other canopies available for you to progress to the 210? Maybe a 230 next?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[leapdog 0]

Quote

P.S. "Ask your instructor he knows best" <--i know i know, but it is nice to get second opinions too, from other experienced jumpers.

You are right to ask riggers. Unless your instructor is a rigger they are not the ones to ask what to get. I have found that jumpers opinions are swayed to what looks good or what is popular at the DZ they jump. I have noticed that at any given DZ you will see mostly one brand of canopy and one make of container. At my old DZ it was Javelin, When I moved I noticed mostly Mirages.

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[leapdog 0]

Quote

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=32040&d=1

ok, now that I have my A, it will be cheaper in the long run if i get my own gear, rather than pay $80 + a day to rent gear. ..

If you're going to make the leaps then getting gear will pay off

the cypress is only good for like 2 more years, then i would have to buy a new one? correct me if i am wrong.

You can replace the Cypres when its time with a new one, a used one, or a Vigil, or a Astra, or by then an Argus


"Ask your instructor he knows best" <--i know i know, but it is nice to get second opinions too, from other experienced jumpers. Good thing you know this!

Without knowing your weight, canopy skills, or canopy experience its difficult to suggest that a 210 main/reserve is a good size for you.

If they are new, as a coach I always suggested at least one 1 pound for aever 1 square foot of fabric over thier head or less than one pound for square foot. remember to add gear wieght to your body wieght.

I also fixed the AAD response. I posted already on the ask the instructor part of the post.

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[BASE469 0]

You are right to ask riggers. Unless your instructor is a rigger they are not the ones to ask what to get.

I question the value of these statements....you need exactly zero jumps to get your riggers ticket. Few riggers, especially senior riggers, have had any formal training that is specific to main canopy flight characteristics. Also, I find it rather bold to suggest that someone disregard or not seek the advise of the very people that provided them with their instruction and who have actually observed and critiqued their performance.

Michael

[councilman24 37]

"fit an average 200lb" man the harness may be big for you. Remember it's you total out the door weight to use to calculate loading. Add 35lbs for gear, clothes, etc. Might be a little high but probably not. As stated above it would be good to transition down to something in between for awhile.

The cypres needing update I take to mean it needs a four year check, which is a year late (not a problem) Probably needs a battery. So $245 plus shipping both ways to get the cypres in the air. It's good for this season and two more.

If it fits, not so bad.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[wmw999 2,447]

Instructors don't necessarily know gear. Riggers don't necessarily know jumping. Gear store owners don't necessarily have your best interests in mind.

Sounds like asking on dz.com is a good way to balance the information that you're getting from sources closer to you. When you have a consensus from people who are respected by the community, it might not be a bad consensus. Either way, in the long run it is your decision -- you're just trying to make sure it's a good one.

As far as type of canopy, the instructor might be the person to talk to (particularly if they focus on canopy stuff). The rigger is better able to determine if it's ragged out, out of trim, or whatever. The gear store owner (particularly if they don't have anything appropriate, or expects to sell to you in the future) is probably best able to tell you if it's a good deal.

And my personal opinion is that almost any canopy type can be learned on; the more docile, the more leeway you have in learning early, and the more brain cells you can donate to learning freefall and emergency skills. Then when you've decided on a direction, you can pick up a canopy that will let you grow in that direction.

But if you try to grow in all of the directions at once, you might end up learning a little about everything -- not necessarily the best approach.

Hank Asciutto has been jumping since the dawn of time; he knows how to take care of gear, and you can find out by asking around what kind of guy he is (that's good -- it's independent confirmation of the source).

A Spectre is a really good canopy for a whole lot of applications, learning among them. It has a huge resale value. The Quasar is a great first container if it fits -- it is well built, and doesn't have a great resale value so it's generally a really good price. The reserve is comparable in size to the main, so you won't find yourself under the smallest canopy you've ever jumped at the time when you've just had your first malfunction. It's cypres-equipped. It looks like a pretty good deal to me; in part because none of this is ragged-out stuff that is already outdated and no one will want in a couple of years. You'll be able to sell any of it whenever you want to move on in gear.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[riggerrob 643]

I question the value of these statements....you need exactly zero jumps to get your riggers ticket. Few riggers, especially senior riggers, have had any formal training that is specific to main canopy flight characteristics.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hee!
Hee!
It all depends upon where your rigger was trained.

For example, US Air Force riggers need to know nothing about main canopies.

Play "Oh Canada!"
On the other hand, if your rigger was trained in Canada, he/she had to pass a written exercise on how to advise skydivers on gear purchases.

[leapdog 0]

Quote

You are right to ask riggers. Unless your instructor is a rigger they are not the ones to ask what to get.

I question the value of these statements....you need exactly zero jumps to get your riggers ticket. Few riggers, especially senior riggers, have had any formal training that is specific to main canopy flight characteristics. Also, I find it rather bold to suggest that someone disregard or not seek the advise of the very people that provided them with their instruction and who have actually observed and critiqued their performance.

Michael

I question the thought that there are any civil riggers in out sport that have never jumped. There are some that don't jump now, but they have atleast gained some knowledge of main canopy flight.

There is no money in rigging unless you own your gear store or work for a manufacturer, and even then it isn't going to get you rich. So for someone to just go get a riggers ticket without participating in the sport at some point? I don't see the motivation.

I also didn't focus on senior riggers. Your singling out only senior riggers could be a considered a slam on your part even though it wasn't considered one by me or intended by you. There are some crappy Masters and some really good seniors.


I agree that these forums are a good balance.

What I meant about instructors, who are not riggers, not being a good source was in the rest of the post which was not quoted in the response. I hear all the time that rig sucks or that canopy is no good or it is good, but with no valid reason why.

It seems to be an on going phenomenon on DZ.com to only quote part of someone's post and and not respond to the whole post. Then have a sort of a sqewed response. Sort of like the media does to a story.

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[BASE469 0]

alright, i'm not interested in getting into a flamefest with you over this....but regarding the rest of your original post....

" I have found that jumpers opinions are swayed to what looks good or what is popular at the DZ they jump. I have noticed that at any given DZ you will see mostly one brand of canopy and one make of container. At my old DZ it was Javelin, When I moved I noticed mostly Mirages."

Popular canopies tend to be popular for a reason...they are decent wings and come from reputable manufactuers. Who would ever recommend something about which they have no knowledge or experience? At the DZ where I work,
all major manufactuers (except one) are well represented....do I have a preference...you bet, but is that the only thing I recommend...of course not...my students are all individuals with varying degrees of abilities and desires. and I can say with absolute certainty that none of the riggers at my DZ know these students as well as I do. A rigger's ticket does not confer any great insight to the holder on this matter....except in Canada :)

[DeNReN 0]

Quote

On the other hand, if your rigger was trained in Canada, he/she had to pass a written exercise on how to advise skydivers on gear purchases.

participants in the CSPA Rigger A course must also have a CSPA B CoP.

Edited to add: made a slight boo boo....Have a B CoP or demonstrate equivalent experiance and ability to the T&SC

[leapdog 0]

Quote

alright, i'm not interested in getting into a flamefest with you over this....but regarding the rest of your original post....

" I have found that jumpers opinions are swayed to what looks good or what is popular at the DZ they jump. I have noticed that at any given DZ you will see mostly one brand of canopy and one make of container. At my old DZ it was Javelin, When I moved I noticed mostly Mirages."

Popular canopies tend to be popular for a reason...they are decent wings and come from reputable manufactuers. Who would ever recommend something about which they have no knowledge or experience? At the DZ where I work,
all major manufactuers (except one) are well represented....do I have a preference...you bet, but is that the only thing I recommend...of course not...my students are all individuals with varying degrees of abilities and desires. and I can say with absolute certainty that none of the riggers at my DZ know these students as well as I do. A rigger's ticket does not confer any great insight to the holder on this matter....except in Canada :)

I apologize that you saw the thread going toward "flamefest". I thought the discussion was interesting. I also have noticed that our posting has detracted from the original posters intent.

I riggers ticket means you know gear. In the US you have shown the FAA that you have apropriate knowledge to do the work required for the rating in which you seek. That Knowledge, since riggers are jumpers or have jumped before, means they know more than the average jumper. They know the intricacies of gear.


Fact still remains, all be it, even if your DZ is represented well, I feel as if your DZ is the minority.
I have been to plenty of DZs out side of my home DZ and my new home DZ and I still see a trned of don't get that because it is no good, but no one can say why.The student get what he is told they should have and because they look up to instructors or other experienced jumpers, they buy it no questions asked.

I agree an instructor does know about thier students abilities. However, can they couple that with flight characteristics and match the student with a good canopy? or do they do as I stated above, just say buy this because it is the best without knowing why? I don't speak of extremes like HiPer canopies or specialty canopies like for CRW or accuracy.

I guess it's just easier for me since I am a coach and a rigger.

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[redramdriver 0]

Quote

Fact still remains, all be it, even if your DZ is represented well, I feel as if your DZ is the minority.
I have been to plenty of DZs out side of my home DZ and my new home DZ and I still see a trned of don't get that because it is no good, but no one can say why.The student get what he is told they should have and because they look up to instructors or other experienced jumpers, they buy it no questions asked

I seem to think that I tend to agree with Mr. Swartz on this statement. The DZ that Mike works at "is" well represented of almost all gear manufactures and just not what is popular. Yes, there does seem to be a trend toward "canopy" manufacture for both main and reserves, but for the most part if your smart enough to ask, like the original poster, then your one step ahead of a lot of other jumpers. I for one jump at that DZ, and I did not get a main that was represented by the "mainstream", nor my reserve or container for that matter. But, I did ask, received lots of valued information, choose what to keep, threw out the BS, and made my own "informative" choice. Just as most jumpers "should". Mark

So, you bring your beer?

Its 5 o'clock somewhere
POPS #9344

[redramdriver 0]

Mike, you really should update your profile to include your riggers qualifications, that may alieve some of the discussion on who knows what the bestest!

So, you bring your beer?

Its 5 o'clock somewhere
POPS #9344

[leapdog 0]

Quote

Quote

Fact still remains, all be it, even if your DZ is represented well, I feel as if your DZ is the minority.
I have been to plenty of DZs out side of my home DZ and my new home DZ and I still see a trned of don't get that because it is no good, but no one can say why.The student get what he is told they should have and because they look up to instructors or other experienced jumpers, they buy it no questions asked

I seem to think that I tend to agree with Mr. Swartz on this statement. The DZ that Mike works at "is" well represented of almost all gear manufactures and just not what is popular. Yes, there does seem to be a trend toward "canopy" manufacture for both main and reserves, but for the most part if your smart enough to ask, like the original poster, then your one step ahead of a lot of other jumpers. I for one jump at that DZ, and I did not get a main that was represented by the "mainstream", nor my reserve or container for that matter. But, I did ask, received lots of valued information, choose what to keep, threw out the BS, and made my own "informative" choice. Just as most jumpers "should". Mark

Ok, that's valid. Doesn't change what I have experienced though. I too kept the good info and threw out the BS. I also went against main stream.
I have still experienced what I have described. I didn't say it existed everywhere.

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker