The Bonfire

[bigway 4]

This is not a whine, nor is it an applaud.

I have seen numerous threads about people saying they like or dislike how the bonfire has become and moaning and applauding etc.

Nor is this poll to prove anything to moderators or HH himself.

I am hoping that nobody uses this thread either to bitch or moan either way.


I think if people click on yes or no honestly then the purpose it serves is to show us, the posters of this community what the majority prefer either way and maybe it will end any moaning or applauding as we will see how the majority feel and can all move on. We can settle it.


Question: Do you prefer the direction the Bonfire has taken the past week over the way the bonfire was for the past 12 months?

Simple answer . Yes or No.

It is obvious the Bonfire has 'unspoken rules', kind of like a poker game. It has bonfire etiquite and the moderators get to use their discretion on each and every post and i am sure they treat each case differently while considering many factors before making a decision on deleting, banning etc.

The moderators deserve respect and I am certain we all agree on that. This website is fantastic and that is only because of the effort that has gone into moderation and not letting it become rec.skydiving.

I look forward to the results of this poll. I think it would be interesting for us members of the community to see what the majority prefer instead of those who just have the courage to applaud or moan about it.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[jtval 0]

I skipped class that day.

What new direction?

If people complianed and the mod's reacted does that mean this IS a democracy?

My photos

My Videos

[PLFKING 4]

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If people complianed and the mod's reacted does that mean this IS a democracy?

It sure seems like that would be true.

But....it can't be....can it ? Wasn't this whole site created under the premise that this ISN"T no damn democracy ?

Was there a coup I missed ?


Don

"When in doubt I whip it out,
I got me a rock-and-roll band.
It's a free-for-all."

[Muenkel 0]

Bigway,

I've been around 6 years now, just like you. I know for a fact that many quality people have moved on because of the direction this place has taken over the past year (and longer). It used to be that I would read almost every thread. Today I logged on and there was 75 new threads of which I would now open about 10. We used to have good quality humor that included actual skydiving stories. I remember when a lifetime ban rarely happened. You know, the days of JTVal2. We had 1 quality boobie thread that met all the boobie needs...if that can actually be done.

In the recent past it had become the same old one liners with very little creativity. The word I hear from some of the past posters is 'loud'. It is that very irritating noise that just gives you a cyber headache.

There are definitely some really great new posters and I personally am happy to have them around. The problem has been the tone and I for one am very glad that HH has spoken up. I just heard from one of our veteran posters who took off for a while and that person said that they thought the vibe seemed alot better recently.

So, there's my .02. I hope it helped to answer your question somewhat.

_________________________________________
Chris

[bigway 4]

I actually agree with you 100%.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[slotperfect 7]

Your Superhero name should be Captain Disclaimer.

Take a look at the return of numerous posters from Bonfire past since the "Open Forums" sticky post appeared. To me, that by itself makes the adjustment worth the effort - a lot of folks that had stayed away because of what Bonfire had become have now returned. Welcome home, y'all!

Arrive Safely

John

[bigway 4]

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Your Superhero name should be Captain Disclaimer

Sometimes you got fight for your thread BEFORE it gets deleted!

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[bigway 4]

I remember when everyone posted from their offices. I can understand why they left. With the words.. fuck, cunt, tits, vagina in every other thread title people would be getting fired for just reading the site at their work places.

I am suprised it took sangiro so long to speak up about it. I guess it was a hard deision to make not knowing if it would pay off or not.

I am noticing many of the oldies back posting. I never thought people who left would be back.. except for cocheese.

Squeak. HTFU!

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[MikeMcLean 0]

The death of any online community happens when the moderators(*) decide to flex their muscles and "enforce a standard". This ultimately will create a battle or show of wills between the moderators and a segment of the community -- which will drive the regular quality posters away and poison the online community.

Unfortunately this is what is starting (last year or so) to happen here. The decline is well underway -- and unless there is a sudden surge of tolerance, respect for all contributors who create the economic value, and a realization that the relationship is absolutely 100% not "guest in house" but "customer to business" -- and is nearly inevitable.

The moderators flexing their muscles (aka penis length contests) are the result of the site owner forgetting that the posters to the site are what create economic value -- we are customers and contributors regardless of how many times people repeat the "guest in house" false mantra.

All online communities, as they grow, will go through a shock value stage -- where a subset tries for notoriety by shock. It takes a brave site owner and moderating staff to realize that that stage is a growing pain and that the best response to that "teenage angst" is to let it be in the realization that it will die itself if left alone. The worst possible response is to actively fight it. To date, this site has shown no such bravado nor maturity.



(*) on their own or at the direction of the site owner

It wouldn't hurt you to think like a fucking serial killer every once in a while - just for the sake of prevention

[sartre 0]

So how big do you suppose Skymama's penis is?

[Shell666 0]

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So how big do you suppose Skymama's penis is?

I'd hazard a guess it's bigger than his.

'Shell

[sartre 0]

OMG, best answer yet!!

[lawrocket 3]

Makes me wonder if I should explain my "Cupcake Theorem" (so named by Tom Aiello)

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Shell666 0]

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Makes me wonder if I should explain my "Cupcake Theorem" (so named by Tom Aiello)

Tell us a story, lawrocket ...

'Shell

[lawrocket 3]

It's in this thread.http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1417729#1417729

This topic is old hat.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[aprilcat 0]

It takes a brave site owner and moderating staff to realize that that stage is a growing pain and that the best response to that "teenage angst" is to let it be in the realization that it will die itself if left alone. The worst possible response is to actively fight it. To date, this site has shown no such bravado nor maturity.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I really don't know what you mean here. This is not a public site, its moderated. That was the understanding I came in with. Its not 'yahoo'. there are not many teenagers in here. When I joined, I looked at the forum rules and there was some things about personal attacks, outright 'vulgarity, racism, sexism, and all points therewithin. Some people delicately creep within those limits and some just come OUT and color outside the lines.

Why the moderators do what they do with certain threads, I kinda get it, but you have to realize people are volunteering their time and HH is coordinating all this and has the biggest headache, as he is responsible to his sponsors.

What I have seen lately in certain threads (referenced in the previous paragraph) is if a thread is 'hot' and you say something totally inflammatory, the mods will let you stand on your own stupidity and delete the responses. Why feed the fire when it gets to the point where you're repeating what 7 people have already said and 6 of them have said 'you are WRONG and STFUP already?'. I really have respect for the Mods and HH..I really wouldn't want to have to read every stinkin' thread that comes through here and decide what forum it belongs in and act on it.

I'm not for public 'vomiting'; while I have responded to or said a few things that may seem 'telling' but I'll be damned if I put my 'life' up on a thread and then get mad if the mods deem it TMI.

When you cross the line where' you're 'venting teenaged' angst its time to ponder if you're still a teenager or wait till you're a little more grown up before you're online without parental supervison. Or just go HAVE sex. Or find Jesus. Or take a nap. Do SOMETHING. I don't read threads about how to cut my toenails in a sexy manner; imagine how much bandwith is being wasted with the correct way to remove armpit hair? We can avoid opening such threads, but the Mods have to read them.

Back to the original point of reference: the site is not a child to nurture and raise and allow to go through its 'stages'. Violate the rules of conduct and you should be gone..no time out...no wining about your 'rights. There really ARE no rights here, (In other words, you cant come in my living room and pull your pants down and take a dump on my rug then sit on my couch, demand a sandwich, and expect the people who live here put UP with that and clean it up the best they can before you SEE that you took a dump then ask for forgiveness when they clean it up for free before you smell the next guy doing the same thing.)

I've been and have raised teenagers. It ain't pretty but you've gotta draw your lines in the sand. I say hats off to the mods and HH for enforcing the lines. Right on!
Rant over. ~~April

Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo!

[lawrocket 3]

And the fact that this site has over 70,000 users means that the HH and moderators are doing something right.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[aprilcat 0]

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And the fact that this site has over 70,000 users means that the HH and moderators are doing something right.

I didn't read how many users are on the site..i was busy navigating the "Shave your Pits Part II' thread.

I swear I couldn't do it..it would look like 13thc France in here! ~~April

Camelot II, the Electric Boogaloo!

[Dumpster 0]

I like the bonfire. Keeps me warm, and if my front gets too hot I just turn around and warm my backside. Beer tastes good there, and nobody yells at me for smoking.

Bonfire is good, Even here in this forum.

Of course the general dynamic is going through changes, and it's probably a cyclical thing. I'll just hang around and watch and wait. Amusing while I wait for the Doc to give me clearance to go back to work.

Fun!

Easy Does It

[sangiro 26]

Mike,

This is the second time that I see you pontificating about something as if it were fact when it's not. Most of what you write above is not just wrong, it's also annoying because you actually try to make it sound like you know what you're talking about - and you don't.

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The death of any online community happens when the moderators(*) decide to flex their muscles and "enforce a standard".

That is plain wrong, almost a bit silly. I don't think there are many owners of online communities who actually think there's any truth to this statement. History has proven this to be false over and over again. NOT enforcing a standard is what kills online communities. Please go visit what's left of rec.skydiving to see your statement in action.

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This ultimately will create a battle or show of wills between the moderators and a segment of the community -- which will drive the regular quality posters away and poison the online community.

That is also not true. I have long come to accept that you can not please everyone. Somebody will be driven away. I guess you and I just value two different groups. I'm comfortable with those users who are currently being "driven away" by moderator action. I would not be happy with the much larger group who'd be leaving if there were no actions. I can assure you, I get a LOT more feedback than you do about the impact of moderator behaviour. I also get a LOT of feedback when moderators don't act. I have a pretty good understanding of the relative size of the two groups.

NOT driving the loud obnoxious poster away is what poisons a community. It's a sign of mediocrity and it alienates the good people - the ones you actually want to keep around.

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Unfortunately this is what is starting (last year or so) to happen here. The decline is well underway

Really? There is nothing in the current cycle that I have not seen many times before over the last 14 years. You feel uncomfortable because we made a deliberate decision to stop certain behavior because it's driving users who we'd like to see here away. So yes, from time to time the moderators and I will dig in our heels against certain behavior and things will feel a bit unstable for those who've been standing on that platform. It's happened many times before, there's nothing new about that. Stick around, you’re going to see it happen again in the future I suspect.

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The moderators flexing their muscles (aka penis length contests) are the result of the site owner forgetting that the posters to the site are what create economic value

Wow, putting aside the attempt at being insulting, I'm amazed that you actually think you know what I've been "forgetting". Your statement is based on a false assumption. The assumption that all user contributions actually create 'economic value'. That's unfortunately not the case and in most cases it's quite the opposite. In this business the most difficult site to sell ad space on is one filled with user generated content. Very few advertisers are willing to see their brands displayed next to a thread full of profanities, pornographic images and the likes. Some advertisers will flat-out refuse any advertising on your site if the majority of content is user generated. Good posts create economic value. Just posting can do the opposite. Bad posts drive away investment. Your statement is simply not accurate.

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we are customers and contributors regardless of how many times people repeat the "guest in house" false mantra.

That statement is also wrong. These forums are free. You don't pay a penny to post here and you are here subject to my TOS. If you don't like them, you are welcome to leave. If you don't stick to them, I will kick you out of here in no time. You can scream "But I'm a customer!" at the top of your lungs on your way to the door and see if it stops me. You are a contributor and a guest. You may not like that mantra, but it is unfortunately true. We will treat you with the same respect you show us and the other users on here. Stick to a few simple rules and you will have a great time on here for many many years to come.

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All online communities, as they grow, will go through a shock value stage

Really? You say that with so much authority. What are the other "stages" that online communities will go through as they grow?

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takes a brave site owner and moderating staff to realize that that stage is a growing pain and that the best response to that "teenage angst" is to let it be in the realization that it will die itself if left alone.

No it doesn't take a brave site owner, it takes a stupid one to do what you suggest. It has been proven over and over again that once a boundary of what's acceptable has been pushed back on an online forum users will not pull it to it's original position again. If we decided to allow the posting of pornographic images or allow advertising in the forums, users will not step back from there again.

By all means, set up a forum (I'm surprised you don't have one with all your knowledge!) and try this experiment. By the time you figure out that users will not stop posting porn, the boundary will simply get moved out further, you will have joined a great multitude of online forums that die exactly the same death.

There's almost not a single sentence in your post that is not plain wrong, false or misleading.

I suspect there are users in this forum who is going to continue to feel uncomfortable for a while. I'm OK with that. The message is simple: we want to create an environment that's open and inviting to everyone. If you disrespect myself, the moderators and the few rules we asked you to stick to... chances are we're going to return the favor.

I do appreciate your concern about the longevity of these forums. I'm very comfortable with the way it's going and how the moderators are doing their job. Time will tell whether you or I have a better understanding of what kills online communities and what keeps them alive.

In the meantime, have some fun while you wait.

Safe swoops
Sangiro

[Squeak 17]

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Mike,

This is the second time that I see you pontificating about something as if it were fact when it's not. Most of what you write above is not just wrong, it's also annoying because you actually try to make it sound like you know what you're talking about - and you don't.

Doesn't everyone on here do that, well everyone except Turtle and Cocheese, Nothing they say sounds plausible

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?