I dont get it!

[BillyVance 34]

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but I have made posts that caused at least one lawyer to complain to Sangiro

Seriously? Wow.

Yep... it was over a demo jump where this person tried to force herself on the jump and the S&TA refused, then the demo sponsor tried the same thing and the S&TA refused to budge, instead jacking up the fuel surcharge, causing the demo to be cancelled. Long story but that's the gist of it.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[MikeMcLean 0]

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So there is a good reason for moderation as needed.

Never said there wasn't ... but like all things the devil is in the details. Is repetition of various unproven -- and likely unprovable because they are false -- statements to the point of nearly religious fervor followed by application of those statements in a heavy handed fashion the right details?

Or, would/could looking at the problem from a different angle be extremely helpful? There would need to be critical thought about the memes as step one, acknowledgement of an inherent risk in the memes themselves and the moderation style they promote as step two. From that step a rational healthy discussion about what constitutes and how to achieve an open, but controlled, forum may result. As the Zen Master says, We'll See.

It wouldn't hurt you to think like a fucking serial killer every once in a while - just for the sake of prevention

[shermanator 4]

from my understanding, the forum owner is responsible for all contenct posted on their site. They are responsible for slander and such, which is why moderation is indeed a very important thing.

so, what your saying, is that, the owner/moderator should sit back, and let the personal attacks/flames happen, and really risk the law, because that is the part that is written in law, not moderating itself. I'm not just pulling this out of my bum, I am going off of life experience of a couple of my high school friends. REally, I don't see a point in your bringing this up, other than to try to stir the pot, or scare the moderators into no longer doing what they are supposed to do.

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[skybytch 273]

Of course, another option would to be react to the remote possibility of being sued by removing the forums from the website.

Is this appeal to fear more or less valid than yours? Or are neither valid? Is an appeal to fear as much a logical fallacy as is an ad hominem attack? Or are appeals to fear considered to be acceptable uses of pathos?

[MikeMcLean 0]

For there to be an appeal to fear, there needs to be a presentation of an argument or position (to which the appeal to fear is used as a fallacy to support).

A thought experiment is useful precisely because it is not an argument, not advocating a point of view. Questions about consequences (i.e. "fear") in a thought experiment are not using fear to support an argument and therefore not a fallacy.

It wouldn't hurt you to think like a fucking serial killer every once in a while - just for the sake of prevention

[Conundrum 1]

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They are responsible for slander and such, which is why moderation is indeed a very important thing.

Slander is spoken. I think the word you're looking for is libel.

[shermanator 4]

darn, i was thinking it was libel. oh well, they are both the same thing, just one is spoken, the other is written. I'm sure others, as well as yourself, knew what I was talking about.

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[stitch 0]

Now I know what it feels like to be Larry Flynt.

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[Shell666 0]

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The mere fact that there are continued threads about "why my post was deleted" or "please explain" indicate that a degree of heavy handedness is occurring.

On the flip side of that you could say:

"The mere fact that there are continued threads about "why my post was deleted" or "please explain" indicate that a degree of childishness is occurring."

'Shell

[TomAiello 26]

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from my understanding, the forum owner is responsible for all contenct posted on their site.

From the Terms of Use, which you agreed to when you created your account.

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(F) Dropzone.com is a distributor (and not a publisher) of content supplied by third parties and the users. Accordingly, Dropzone.com has no more editorial control over such content than does a public library, bookstore, or newsstand. Any opinions, advice, statements, services, offers, or other information or content expressed or made available by third parties, including information providers, the users or any other user of Dropzone.com, are those of the respective author(s) or distributor(s) and not of Dropzone.com. Neither Dropzone.com nor any third-party provider of information guarantees the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any content, nor its merchantability or fitness for any particular purpose.

edit to add: I suggest that anyone considering a lawsuit start by reading the terms of use, which they have agreed to, and asking themselves if they really think they have legal standing to sue, especially considering the following:

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(H) Dropzone.com reserves the right to refuse service, or parts of the service, or access to the Dropzone.com servers, to anyone for any reason. We enforce this policy to ensure a professional environment for the users of the site. We reserve the right to remove or edit any content or cancel any membership without prior notice and without providing a reason.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[MikeMcLean 0]

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The mere fact that there are continued threads about "why my post was deleted" or "please explain" indicate that a degree of heavy handedness is occurring.

On the flip side of that you could say:

"The mere fact that there are continued threads about "why my post was deleted" or "please explain" indicate that a degree of childishness is occurring."

Challenging moderators, whining, name calling, etc. are indicators of childishness. Questions, more likely, indicate a moderation issue (heavy handedness, conflicting policies, bias, elitism, etc.)

It wouldn't hurt you to think like a fucking serial killer every once in a while - just for the sake of prevention

[Conundrum 1]

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Questions, more likely, indicate a moderation issue (heavy handedness, conflicting policies, bias, elitism, etc.)

I agree.

[Shell666 0]

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The mere fact that there are continued threads about "why my post was deleted" or "please explain" indicate that a degree of heavy handedness is occurring.

On the flip side of that you could say:

"The mere fact that there are continued threads about "why my post was deleted" or "please explain" indicate that a degree of childishness is occurring."

Challenging moderators, whining, name calling, etc. are indicators of childishness. Questions, more likely, indicate a moderation issue (heavy handedness, conflicting policies, bias, elitism, etc.)

Great challenge.

'Shell

[Shotgun 1]

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Challenging moderators, whining, name calling, etc. are indicators of childishness. Questions, more likely, indicate a moderation issue (heavy handedness, conflicting policies, bias, elitism, etc.)

A lot of these "questions" are from people who intentionally started a thread that they knew was going to get deleted, just so they could start a thread to ask why their post was deleted (as if they didn't know) and continue to whine about the moderators. Seems like childishness to me.

Perhaps this thread is an exception, as it seemed to be an honest question, but most of the "why was my post deleted"-type threads just seem to be trying to challenge the moderators. At least that's how it looks from my perspective.

[Shell666 0]

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Challenging moderators, whining, name calling, etc. are indicators of childishness. Questions, more likely, indicate a moderation issue (heavy handedness, conflicting policies, bias, elitism, etc.)

A lot of these "questions" are from people who intentionally started a thread that they knew was going to get deleted, just so they could start a thread to ask why their post was deleted (as if they didn't know) and continue to whine about the moderators. Seems like childishness to me.

Perhaps this thread is an exception, as it seemed to be an honest question, but most of the "why was my post deleted"-type threads just seem to be trying to challenge the moderators. At least that's how it looks from my perspective.

**clap**

'Shell

[Conundrum 1]

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Challenging moderators, whining, name calling, etc. are indicators of childishness. Questions, more likely, indicate a moderation issue (heavy handedness, conflicting policies, bias, elitism, etc.)

A lot of these "questions" are from people who intentionally started a thread that they knew was going to get deleted, just so they could start a thread to ask why their post was deleted (as if they didn't know) and continue to whine about the moderators. Seems like childishness to me.

Perhaps this thread is an exception, as it seemed to be an honest question, but most of the "why was my post deleted"-type threads just seem to be trying to challenge the moderators. At least that's how it looks from my perspective.

**clap**

In my defense, and in all honesty, the recent thread of mine that was deleted was not made knowing it would be deleted. I was suprised when it went missing. I didn't know if it was the thread itself or something someone said in the thread or what. So, I made a post asking for clarification and instead of an answer, it got trashed as well. I wasn't bitching or whinning or griping about anything, I was really wondering what caused it to be deleted. THEN I startd bitching with the 'wow' thread because it was a little irritating to have a question totally ignored. Even when I've PM'd a mod specifically asking why something was deleted instead of making a thread, THAT also gets ignored. I think that's a bit childish. Anyway, I'm not trying to rub anyone the wrong way, just explaining my position on recent events.

[Shell666 0]

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Challenging moderators, whining, name calling, etc. are indicators of childishness. Questions, more likely, indicate a moderation issue (heavy handedness, conflicting policies, bias, elitism, etc.)

A lot of these "questions" are from people who intentionally started a thread that they knew was going to get deleted, just so they could start a thread to ask why their post was deleted (as if they didn't know) and continue to whine about the moderators. Seems like childishness to me.

Perhaps this thread is an exception, as it seemed to be an honest question, but most of the "why was my post deleted"-type threads just seem to be trying to challenge the moderators. At least that's how it looks from my perspective.

**clap**

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Anyway, I'm not trying to rub anyone the wrong way, just explaining my position on recent events.

My advice ... quit while you're ahead. Or at least even.
Or maybe just a little bit behind.

'Shell

[Conundrum 1]

What was wrong with what I posted this time? :confused:

[Shell666 0]

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What was wrong with what I posted this time? :confused:

Well, you just reposted the reason's behind YOUR posts questioning and challenging the moderators about threads that ended up in the recycle bin . And those threads questioning it also ended up in the recycle bin.

Looks like you're using this thread to do it again.

Just my take on it.

'Shell

[Conundrum 1]

No, what I'm trying to do is explain that I didn't make the OP to piss anyone off on purpose, nor did I do that with the second thread, yet I'm still getting attitude.

I don't see how I "challenged" anyone, I was asking why to get clarification on if it was my post or something that happened within it. Why is it such a big deal to ask for clarification on something? I never "questioned" the authority of the mods or HH or anyone, just asked for some clarity. Why is that so taboo?

[stitch 0]

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Challenging moderators, whining, name calling, etc. are indicators of childishness. Questions, more likely, indicate a moderation issue (heavy handedness, conflicting policies, bias, elitism, etc.)

A lot of these "questions" are from people who intentionally started a thread that they knew was going to get deleted, just so they could start a thread to ask why their post was deleted (as if they didn't know) and continue to whine about the moderators. Seems like childishness to me.

Perhaps this thread is an exception, as it seemed to be an honest question, but most of the "why was my post deleted"-type threads just seem to be trying to challenge the moderators. At least that's how it looks from my perspective.

The person that started this thread, wasn't the person that started the thread that got deleted, that this thread is in reference to. Nor did I in any way put this person "up to" starting this thread.

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[Shotgun 1]

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In my defense, and in all honesty, the recent thread of mine that was deleted was not made knowing it would be deleted. I was suprised when it went missing.

Come on, Chelle, even if you didn't know that it would end up being deleted, you seem smart enough to figure out why it went missing. So why create extra work for people here when you could just let it go?

And BTW, I hope it doesn't seem like I'm trying to run you off, because I'm not. You're a fun person to have around here - I'm just expressing my opinion on this one issue. It's gotta be getting old for the moderators to have to keep explaining this stuff, especially to the folks who have been on here for a while.

[mnealtx 0]

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The mere fact that there are continued threads about "why my post was deleted" or "please explain" indicate that a degree of heavy handedness is occurring.

On the flip side of that you could say:

"The mere fact that there are continued threads about "why my post was deleted" or "please explain" indicate that a degree of childishness is occurring."

Challenging moderators, whining, name calling, etc. are indicators of childishness. Questions, more likely, indicate a moderation issue (heavy handedness, conflicting policies, bias, elitism, etc.)

Or people that have forgotten (or never bothered to read) the TOS.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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Actually, despite the oft-repeated mantra around here this site is neither "HH's house" nor "free".

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Incorrect - the servers and software license to run the forum ARE HH's property.

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You, me, everyone pays for their bandwidth (*). I am currently typing into a web form that has a flash advertisement loaded at the top of the page which was loaded using my bandwidth and therefore my dollars. You, reading this comment, are likely looking at a similar ad paid for with your bandwidth dollars. This effectively makes this site "not free".

Those ads are there because collectively our eyeballs are a valuable commodity. Other people are selling that commodity for us and reaping the benefits of that sale (as a condition of being a site member). This, combined with the paid-account option, clearly and legally delineate our relationship to the site as "customer to business" not "guest in a home".

Have some fun googling around the definitions in the Uniform Commercial Code, various state laws, various international laws, and in particular the case-law surrounding all of the boundary conditions related to online communities (hint, not much there which means a whole lotta gray area).


(*) bandwidth charges "per MB" or "monthly flat rate" or "quota based" are irrelevant technicalities, you pay for bandwidth regardless of how it happens to be billed today

Irrelevant. TOS is TOS, regardless of how you are accessing the site and whether or not there is ad revenue being generated by the site. You agreed to those rules when you made the account.

As an example, try putting up a porn site on Yahoo or Angelfire and tell them that "it's not their house" when they pull it down - we'll wait for your results.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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[MikeMcLean 0]

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Great challenge.

I wasn't / haven't been challenging anyone; I consider that a personal attack and I ask that you please refrain from that type of commentary.

It wouldn't hurt you to think like a fucking serial killer every once in a while - just for the sake of prevention