DSE 5 #1 February 25, 2008 Somewhat surprised no one has commented on this story Woman from Brookly Dies In Flight Passengers aboard Flight 896 became agitated over the situation, and the flight attendant, apparently after phone consultation with the cockpit, tried to administer oxygen from a portable tank and mask, but the tank was empty. Oliver said two doctors and two nurses were aboard and tried to administer oxygen from a second tank, which also was empty. Two failed oxygen bottles and a failed defib device. FAA won't allow passengers to carry their own oxygen on board. Recipe for disaster? Who is liable? FAA? American Airlines? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
simplyputsi 0 #2 February 25, 2008 QuoteRecipe for disaster? Who is liable? FAA? American Airlines? Till they find out what she died from, I'd say no one is liable right now. I doubt lack of oxygen was the reason she died. edit: i kant spul ;-)Skymama's #2 stalker - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #3 February 25, 2008 The FAA is not liable any more than the national parks administration (whatever they are called) is liable for not letting you take your rifle into the park if you are attacked by a bear. The woman could have chosen to not board the plane. Is the oxygen required by FAA? Does the airline claim it is available if needed? If so then I think AA is gonna pay. My guess is they pay quickly so as to minimize bad press. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #4 February 25, 2008 I don't know the answer to either question, sorta hoping someone here does. If medical oxygen is required for life, and the FAA regs won't allow for passengers to carry their own, in my mind, it suggests that the FAA then takes on that liability, or the airline does. Obviously they had medical oxygen on the flight, but the bottles were both empty. Suggests someone is carrying it for some reason, doesn't it? Who requires (if anyone) the airline to carry medical oxygen? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #5 February 25, 2008 QuoteIs the oxygen required by FAA? Yes it is. POB's are on board for emergency use. AED's are also required to be on board. As for both bottles being empty I find that a little fishy. We can have an empty bottle on board. Lets say a flight was going to BFE where no maintenance was available and they used a bottle going there. We can place that bottle on what they call an MEL to get the plane back to us so we can service it. As for how many bottles can be empty depends on plane type and what the MEL book says. Besides, if I understand the article it was an A300. There is more than 2 bottles on that size of a plane.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #6 February 25, 2008 QuoteIf medical oxygen is required for life, and the FAA regs won't allow for passengers to carry their own, in my mind, it suggests that the FAA then takes on that liability, or the airline does. PAX can carry their own O2. There is a bunch or crap they have to do like call the airline, doctors note and some other stuff but they can bring there own if they need it for travel. The bottles on board are for emergency use only.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #7 February 25, 2008 She is listed as a Brooklyn Woman so the thread title is a little misleading. Also other reports I read on this same story say the airlines dispute that the Two Oxagen Tanks were empty. http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080225/flight_death.html?.v=1 You ca bet the Liars I mean Lawyers are already drooling over this one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyninja 0 #8 February 25, 2008 Well, it saves a hospital bill... Why don't you just play 'chicken' on the railroad tracks? It would be a cheaper way to toy with death, I'm sure. CWR #2 - "You SAID collision!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #9 February 25, 2008 QuoteWell, it saves a hospital bill... Yeah, but the clean up of a deceased body on an airplane can be messy and very expensive.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
simplyputsi 0 #10 February 25, 2008 Quote Quote Well, it saves a hospital bill... Yeah, but the clean up of a deceased body on an airplane can be messy and very expensive. Step 1. Open door below 10,000 ft. Step 2. Push body out. Step 3. Close the door. Skymama's #2 stalker - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 37 #11 February 25, 2008 That's just wrong!She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #12 February 25, 2008 QuoteStep 1. Open door below 10,000 ft. Step 2. Push body out. Step 3. Close the door. Step 4. Clean up the messy area on the floor from the deceased. We had one a little over 2 weeks ago that still haunts me. It was the worst one I have seen! From what I read they ended up calling a Haz-Mat team to start the clean up then the plane went to our heavy check facility to get a bunch more clean up done. It is not a pleasant job.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindercles 0 #13 February 25, 2008 QuoteIt was the worst one I have seen! How many have you seen?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #14 February 25, 2008 QuoteHow many have you seen?! 3 One was when I was a customer on a Delta flight. 1 about a year ago when a elderly man passes on one of our inbound international flights and the one about 2 weeks ago.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shermanator 4 #15 February 25, 2008 sounds very 'fishy' to me. do the o2 tanks have gauges on them? how do they know they were empty, other than the woman saying she was not getting any? did anyone else confirm they were empty. It really doesn't sound like the lack of O2 is what killed her. It sounds more like a heart condition that finally caught up to her.CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08 CSA #720 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,079 #16 February 25, 2008 >PAX can carry their own O2. I asked about that (to be able to carry out bailout O2 for very high altitude loads) but at least American has a firm policy of no passenger O2 whatsoever. If needed they will supply it, but you cannot bring your own no matter how many doctor's notes you have. From their website: ======================== Therapeutic Oxygen Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regulations do not allow passengers to bring or use their personal oxygen units on board a commercial aircraft. American Airlines (AA) supplies gaseous oxygen that is an FAA approved therapeutic unit for our passengers' use in flight only. Empty Oxygen Units Only empty gaseous oxygen units (usually made of green metal) may be accepted as checked baggage or in the cabin provided the customer can demonstrate the bottle is empty and meets carry-on or baggage requirements. Also, only gaseous oxygen is approved for cargo acceptance. Shipping Full Oxygen Units Neither American Airlines nor Air Cargo accepts full oxygen tanks from passengers. U.S. carriers can only accept them when packaged and labeled properly by known shippers with required shipping papers. Passengers may be referred to an indirect air carrier such as Federal Express, Airborne Express, etc. Only gaseous oxygen is approved for cargo acceptance. ========================= Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #17 February 25, 2008 Quotesounds very 'fishy' to me. do the o2 tanks have gauges on them? Yes they do. how do they know they were empty, other than the woman saying she was not getting any? Quote Who is saying they were empty? The airline or the relative of the deceased? One thing about these bottles is the flow from them is not like what you would get at a hospital of an ambulance. I am not exactly sure about how much less but I know for a fact it is lower. It sounds more like a heart condition that finally caught up to her. *** I just read the doctor in New York said it was a heart attack. It's a real shame but thats life.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #18 February 25, 2008 QuoteI asked about that (to be able to carry out bailout O2 for very high altitude loads) but at least American has a firm policy of no passenger O2 whatsoever. If needed they will supply it, but you cannot bring your own no matter how many doctor's notes you have. Maybe different airlines have different rules but I have seen PAX boarding with tubes in their nose and some weird looking box either on a strap on their shoulder or on a little roller cart. Like I said the only O2 that I know of is the emergency bottles on board. The green bottles that says "Aviators Breathing Oxygen" on it.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,079 #19 February 25, 2008 >Maybe different airlines have different rules but I have seen PAX >boarding with tubes in their nose and some weird looking box either on a >strap on their shoulder or on a little roller cart. Oh, I definitely have as well! From what I can tell, though, those bottles MUST be supplied by the airline - passengers cannot bring their own. (At least on AA.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
simplyputsi 0 #20 February 25, 2008 QuoteThat's just wrong! I know, I'm going to hell how I just know it. That or I'm gonna die on my flight this week. Just great!! I take it back, I'm sorry!!!Skymama's #2 stalker - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #21 February 25, 2008 QuoteIt sounds more like a heart condition that finally caught up to her. *** I just read the doctor in New York said it was a heart attack. It's a real shame but thats life. That actually makes the case a little stronger for the family of the deceased. One of the medications to respond to an acute myocardial infarction is Oxygen (oxygen, morphine, nitro, aspirin) It's hard to say if she had gotten proper management whether she would have lived or not. The hypoxia on board probably led to heart strain as they generally pressurize the cabins to 7,000 to 10,000 feet. If the partial pressure of the oxygen at that level was inadequate to meet the needs of her heart, then the heart would have started beating faster and she would have developed the chest pain and difficulty breathing. IF she would have gotten supplimental oxygen in time... she might not have lost as many heart cells.... Then there's the issue of the defib. If there was a NON functioning defib on board.... The airlines would be best to just settle this one quietly as this could have been a preventable death. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #22 February 25, 2008 QuoteOh, I definitely have as well! From what I can tell, though, those bottles MUST be supplied by the airline - passengers cannot bring their own. (At least on AA.) Maybe. They might be supplied by us. I dont know. I have never issued one out or had to deal with one. Thats not our side of the house. Just the small POB's in the PAX cabin and the big one below for the flight crew is all we deal with.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #23 February 25, 2008 QuoteShe is listed as a Brooklyn Woman so the thread title is a little misleading. Also other reports I read on this same story say the airlines dispute that the Two Oxagen Tanks were empty. http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080225/flight_death.html?.v=1 You ca bet the Liars I mean Lawyers are already drooling over this one. The woman is from Haiti, and now lives/lived in Brooklyn. So, she's a Haitian woman who was returning to her home in Brooklyn. The doctor on the news this morning unequivocably said "the on-board oxygen bottle was empty." He didn't qualify whether or not this contributed to her death. There was a woman that appeared to be one of the two nurses onboard, who said the defib unit failed as well, but she may have been an average pax vs being a medical professional. Looking for the news story in video form now. I'm still curious...because it seems that if the airline or FAA says you can't bring oxygen when it's required for medical reasons, then they're obligated to take on the responsiblity of providing medical oxygen. It's easy to say "She didn't have to board the flight" but the fact is, particularly if she's island bound, she is entitled to be able to move around the world just as we are. She may have been old, she may have been unhealthy, but on first appearance, it also seems that the FAA or American Air bear some culpability, as they denied her the right to carry on her own oxygen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #24 February 25, 2008 QuoteThe hypoxia on board probably led to heart strain as they generally pressurize the cabins to 7,000 to 10,000 feet. It's not that high but the effect could still have been the same. A change in altitude and pressure might have been the right recipe for her heart failure. I am not a Doc so who knows. My opinion is if her medical condition was that bad she should not be flying anyway. Thats just me.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #25 February 25, 2008 Quote . . . gaseous oxygen units (usually made of green metal) . . . Where -exactly- do you find stuff made from green metal?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
