Canopy advice please

[Steve-O 0]

Ive done 100 jumps on a sabre 170, i am a competent pilot on the 170 having done basic and advanced canopy courses. i have been looking for a new rig that will get me safely through the next 50+ jumps and then be versitile enough so that i can begin learning to swoop etc when im more experienced. what do you recommend? i am considering a sabre 135 or stiletto 150, or are these not a good idea?

any advice will be helpful

thanks a lot

[mattjw916 2]

1. Fill out your profile so people can have an idea of your weight, experience, etc...

2. Prepare to get _extremely_ conservative advice here. (But most of it is pretty good)

3. Prepare to get flamed no matter what.

4. See number 3 again.

That said, downsizing and going elliptical at the same time is not recommended. Downsizing 2 sizes at once, i.e. 170 to 135, skipping 150 is also not recommended.

Maybe if you provide more info people will give you a better answer.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[darnknit 0]

why don't you ask the people who conducted the basic and advanced canopy courses you attended?

pulling is cool. keep it in the skin

[Tonto 1]

Welcome!
Everything mattjw916 said is valid. People do tend to give very conservative advice here, because we have a list of people we can name who argued with us in Swooping and canopy control, and that we posted about in Incidents.

I don't think that downsizing and going eliptical, or going down 2 sizes is prudent.

Talk to the people who you did the courses with. They'll be able to give you the best input.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[riggergreg 0]

You state that you are "competent" on the 170.. Why not fly it until you become an "expert" on the same canopy?
You can learn all the basics of swooping on a canopy you are comfortable with.

Too many folks think you can't swoop with a larger canopy, but learning to swoop is like any other canopy maneuver. The learning curve goes up if you don't have to learn the characteristics of another canopy while trying to learn new maneuvers.

Just my 2 cents

[tso-d_chris 0]

Quote

Ive done 100 jumps on a sabre 170, i am a competent pilot on the 170 having done basic and advanced canopy courses. i have been looking for a new rig that will get me safely through the next 50+ jumps and then be versitile enough so that i can begin learning to swoop etc when im more experienced. what do you recommend? i am considering a sabre 135 or stiletto 150, or are these not a good idea?

any advice will be helpful

thanks a lot

First, believe it or not, 100 jumps is not nearly enough to learn all there is to now about your canopy. 500-700 jumps on your first canopy is a good way to build piloting skills and confidence. It sounds like a lot of jumps, but it really isn't that many.

Second, while canopy coach courses are outstanding opportunities to learn new skills, they are not in and of themselves magic bullets that instill skills simply because you take the course. Many practice jumps are still required to practice the new skill set.

It has already been mentioned that downsizing two sizes (to a 135) is a bad idea. I agree. Such a large downsize is a bad idea.

If you want to learn to swoop, the Sabre2 is better suited than the Stiletto. The Sabre2 will dive steeper, and should take a little longer to recover than a similarly sized Stiletto. The Stiletto is a very flat gliding canopy; in this respect it is much different than the Velocity and the Katana, two PD canopies commonly used for swooping.

That does not mean that you cannot swoop a Stiletto. Stilettos swoop well. But if you plan on progressing to a Velocity or Katana, a Sabre2 is a better intermediate canopy.

Lastly, There is no reason you cannot swoop a Sabre2 170. Swooping is about piloting technique, not jumping a tiny canopy. If a pilot can't swoop a big canopy consistently, you won't be able to control a smaller canopy consistently, either, which can end up being a very big deal.

For Great Deals on Gear

[davelepka 4]

If you are jumping a Sabre 170, than the Sabre2 170 or 150 would represent a significant difference from what you have now. None of that addresses that fact that you have NOT taken your current canopy as far as you can.

Skipping sizes is a bad idea. PD reccomends 500 jumps min for a Stiletto.

Understand that becoming a good canopy pilot is a long and drawn out process, and is based 100% on jump numbers. Regardless of what you do with those jumps, one jump = one landing.

Rushing things can slow your learning curve, or end it all together with a serious injury or worse.

[billvon 3,063]

Not enough info to give you very good advice.

If you are looking for a canopy _right_now_ I would recommend trying a Pilot 168. It's higher performance than the Sabre 170, and is a very forgiving canopy to learn on. I would _not_ recommend downsizing and going to a more aggressive canopy at the same time (i.e. a Stiletto 150.)

But like I said, hard to give advice without knowing more about your wing loading, performance under the 170 etc.

[skymama 37]

Quote

Lastly, There is no reason you cannot swoop a Sabre2 170. Swooping is about piloting technique, not jumping a tiny canopy. If a pilot can't swoop a big canopy consistently, you won't be able to control a smaller canopy consistently, either, which can end up being a very big deal.

I just wanted to copy this because I think it bears repeating. I have a friend who learned to swoop on a Sabre2 150 and spent hundreds of jumps over the past couple of years practicing on that canopy. He never said he felt really bored on that canopy until this year when he downsized to a Sabre2 135. But, there were a few times when he said he scared himself with these new maneuvers he was trying and he was thankful that he was on that larger canopy.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

Quote

...People do tend to give very conservative advice here, because we have a list of people we can name who argued with us in Swooping and canopy control, and that we posted about in Incidents...

Ooooh!!! There's a "list!" Sounds like Bounce Bingo to me... I want in. Ummm... sorry, couldn't resist.


Anyway...

Quote

Ive done 100 jumps on a sabre 170, i am a competent pilot on the 170 having done basic and advanced canopy courses. i have been looking for a new rig that will get me safely through the next 50+ jumps and then be versitile enough so that i can begin learning to swoop etc when im more experienced. what do you recommend? i am considering a sabre 135 or stiletto 150, or are these not a good idea?

any advice will be helpful

thanks a lot

Steve-O... welcome aboard and good on you for taking basic and advanced canopy courses. I'll admit, when I first read your post, that when I heard you say that you have 100 jumps on a Sabre170... etc... that my first blush was "that's really not a lot of jumps on one canopy." Now I don't mean to say I'm scoffing at what you said... again, good on you for taking canopy courses. Up-post someone said it would help if you filled out your profile so we knew somemore info like how many total jumps you have, over what time period and how you're loading your canopy now. Anyway, one thing I'd like to throw out, if you haven't done it yet, why don't you call-up PD and get a Sabre-2 170 demo. In my words, the Sabre-2 flys somewhere between an old Sabre and a Stilletto. It would be a good experience for you, I think. Remember, you've got the rest of your life to downsize, the decissions you make will determine how much time that is.