NEWBIE AFP NEEDS LANDING IN-PUT

[Squeak 17]

Hi,

I just finished my 4th AFF Jump and landed it for the 1st time

Jump one , rolled around in mud

Jump 2 forward tucked roll 'cause I screwed up

Jump 3 didnt ket the feet moving

Jump 4 "Listened to the TA and didnt take my eyes off of him, did what i was instructeed to do and it worked a treat. Made the jump a much bigger buzz.

Since your JM will be on the DZ before you ask them to guide you in (if they don't alreddy) using signals or radio.

Regards

Squeak

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[fotta 0]

Congratulations! I know the feeling of doing stand-up landings - wonderful. As I'm just returning to the sport it has been a long time since I've experienced that feeling. My last couple of jumps resulted in fairly gentle PLFs but I can see light at the end of the tunnel. First one yesterday flared a bit low, second one flared a bit high. Next one will be in between.

-> gravity sucks <-

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Hi,

I just finished my 4th AFF Jump and landed it for the 1st time

Jump one , rolled around in mud

Jump 2 forward tucked roll 'cause I screwed up

Jump 3 didnt ket the feet moving

Jump 4 "Listened to the TA and didnt take my eyes off of him, did what i was instructeed to do and it worked a treat. Made the jump a much bigger buzz.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

THey have mud in that desert???

[ridestrong 1]

Quote

Quote

HOW do you judge WHERE the ground and WHEN you are going to touch the ground???

I'm almost certain that at some point or another you've been told to "look at the horizon" in order for you to judge how high you are above the ground. Unfortunately, what's usually not communicated in this is how this is helpful, what the technique is and how exactly can you go about figuring out how high you are above something.

+1

That is what my AFFI's told me, and thankfully it led to good landings from the get go.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[cloudclimr 0]

I'm going for my 2nd tandem jump on 2/27 followed by a packing course that's offered twice a year at my dz. I'm starting the AFF/solo jump training course on March 20. Like you said, it helps to read others' experiences because this was a question I had also. Paying attention to the horizon would make a lot of sense to me and definitely will be on my mind when I reach that point but, can easily envision it now. Can I ask a question though....I read the term flare frequently...what is that / mean? Sorry that I'm asking, just that I'm new.

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

Hmmmmm....

1. I would be wary of any DZ that only offered a packing course twice a year. That suggests to me that they don't take training very seriously. Perhaps the DZ is really just a tandem mill which tacks on a few training classes in order to squeeze $$$ out of unsuspecting students.

2. Trying to learn to skydive by reading DZ.com is dangerous. This is an ultra-hazardous sport... get the best face-to-face instruction you can find. Shop around, training varies tremendously. I drove twice as far to get excellent instruction (an extra hour each way). The part of the training that varies the most between locations is what happens AFTER you are cleared for self-supervision (such as after completing AFF). I was trained at a Skydive University campus... which is one format of excellent post-AFF instruction. It was worth every dime I paid for it! There are many other good programs, but you have to evaluate carefully what they offer.

3. If you absolutely demand to read something before your formal instruction, try something reputable like the USPA Skydiver Information Manual. Section 4 is the part for you:

http://www.uspa.org/SIM/Read/Section4/tabid/166/Default.aspx

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Quote

... Can I ask a question though....I read the term flare frequently...what is that / mean? Sorry that I'm asking, just that I'm new.

I'm a firm believer in "The only stupid question is the one you don't ask".

This is a question best answered by your instructor, in person, during the FJC.

But, since you won't be doing that for a while, here goes.

When approaching to land, you pull down on both toggles. This changes the airfoil shape of your canopy, increasing both lift and drag.
Doing this converts downward speed into lift. It slows both the descent and forward speed.
Timing this so that you level off and almost stop just at the ground is the tricky part. Too soon and you will stall the canopy while still too high for a good landing. Too late and you hit hard.

In short, you use your toggles to slow your descent to keep from hitting the ground too hard. And bonus points for spelling it "Flare", not "flair".

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[cloudclimr 0]

Absolutely agreed! I should have clarified a little more thoroughly...The program I'm beginning is a "solo jump" training course. They teach by a one skill at a time method and is very involved. The course includes "packing" and is mandatory in the program. The twice a year Packing course is offered apart from the training program. They offer other programs at this dropzone also.
After my first jump this past October, I decided to pursue the sport and went to the USPA site to view the SIM. I appreciate your link.... I wanted to see what par-taking in this sport involves. Also on researching the net, I came upon this site and have been reading to gain some perspective about the sport and its disciplines. There are a lot of terms I like to aquaint myself with so it's a little easier when I start the program..like being in the medical field, people wouldnt' have a clue what "Choley" or renal function, bun and creat means during a connversation unless your aquainted with the field. As usual, I like to get a jump start on some terms and and have some perspective. I've spent time watching people jump and land. I'm not one to just go up to someone and ask...how do you determine.....which is why I signed up for the packing course because it'll break the ice, give me a better idea on what I'm doing when I reach that stage in the program and give me an opportunity to ask questions about things I've come across.
As far as dropzones, There are 3 in the pocono region (I live in PA). The one I chose is furthest away.
But definitely, you can't learn from what you read. I hope I can come and ask questions as they arise,

[cloudclimr 0]

I had a sense that's what it meant, just wasn't too sure.
Thanks

[Superbus 0]

As someone who made his fifth AFF jump, was off-radio*, and landed it cleanly for the first time, I can tell you what worked for me.

I flared too high on all of my previous attempts, so this time I simply got to the point where I felt I should flare, and waited two more seconds. I figured that flaring when I was comfortable had failed four times in a row, so I would have to break my comfort zone and get lower than I wanted to before I should flare. That, combined with the fact that my AFFI told me that I should feel like I was low enough to kick a tall person in the head, helped me muster the courage to 'hold fast.'

When I got to half flare, I was so happy to be skimming just above the ground with some forward momentum that I forgot to complete the flare and ended up running it out.

*Before someone shits a brick because I was a student without a radio: I had a radio, but was allowed to fly my own pattern and land on my own)

[ibx 2]

Don't instructors give flare instructions over radio ?

I learned: Eyes - Shoulder - Hips. It worked pretty well.

Consistent stand up landings from jump 2.
Completely without help from about jump 13.
On jump one my radio was busted. Bad bruising of the tailbone. I flared way too late.


I also believe the flare in one smooth pull is not the right way to teach students... The flare should be sequential, by flaring just a little (eyes) you will already see a noticlable change in the canopys sinkrate. This makes you slower and its a lot less scary than full canopy flight. Then you pull down to your shoulders increasing the effect. Pulling down to your hips in the last moment just before you hit the ground.
This gave me perfect standup landings. I learned on a 230 Sparc though. Larger canopys like a 260 Balance may behave differently.

[labrys 0]

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*Before someone shits a brick because I was a student without a radio: I had a radio, but was allowed to fly my own pattern and land on my own)

It's not a big deal for a student to go without radio. USPA doesn't recommend or not recommend it. Lots of students do without from jump 1.

Owned by Remi #?

[awagnon 0]

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I learned: Eyes - Shoulder - Hips. It worked pretty well.

I also believe the flare in one smooth pull is not the right way to teach students... The flare should be sequential, by flaring just a little (eyes) you will already see a noticlable change in the canopys sinkrate. This makes you slower and its a lot less scary than full canopy flight. Then you pull down to your shoulders increasing the effect. Pulling down to your hips in the last moment just before you hit the ground.

I agree. I found that if I said outloud, as I was flaring, "eyes, shoulder, hips" that it slowed me down, didn't flare as high, and started standing them up. May not work for everyone, but it helped me. No radio after about 4th jump.

Alton

"Luck favors the prepared."

[emmiwy 0]

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As someone who made his fifth AFF jump, was off-radio*, and landed it cleanly for the first time, I can tell you what worked for me.

I flared too high on all of my previous attempts, so this time I simply got to the point where I felt I should flare, and waited two more seconds. I figured that flaring when I was comfortable had failed four times in a row, so I would have to break my comfort zone and get lower than I wanted to before I should flare. That, combined with the fact that my AFFI told me that I should feel like I was low enough to kick a tall person in the head, helped me muster the courage to 'hold fast.'

When I got to half flare, I was so happy to be skimming just above the ground with some forward momentum that I forgot to complete the flare and ended up running it out.

*Before someone shits a brick because I was a student without a radio: I had a radio, but was allowed to fly my own pattern and land on my own)

+1

I think it's all about stepping out of the comfort zone and be mentally prepared to fall. I think the first jumps I didn't stand up on was because I was afraid of landing too hard or breaking my legs or something similar. So it really is learning how to time the flare. Bringing legs together and lifting the knees a little also helps me mentally prepare for the landing.

As what people have said already, it helps to look at the horizon and not look directly below you--also using your periphery is helpful to gauge height of landmarks around you. Such as the top of trees or other objects. My instructor actually had me stand atop a flight of stairs near our DZ to visualize how high you would begin the two stage flare.

[DocPop 1]

I'll just re-post something I posted in a different thread because I think it bears repeating;

Make sure you finish your flare.

I see so many people who don't and then blame their rough landings on something else (the canopy's worn out, there was a gust of wind etc..).

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[millertime24 8]

First I would say read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Parachute-Its-Pilot-Ultimate-Ram-Air/dp/0977627721/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266366348&sr=8-1

After reading have discussions with your instructors or canopy coaches on anything you dont understand.

On top of all that have instructors watch your landings and give you good accurate feedback on what you should do to better your landings.

Muff #5048

[kmills0705 0]

Quote

Hmmmmm....

1. I would be wary of any DZ that only offered a packing course twice a year. That suggests to me that they don't take training very seriously. Perhaps the DZ is really just a tandem mill which tacks on a few training classes in order to squeeze $$$ out of unsuspecting students.

2. Trying to learn to skydive by reading DZ.com is dangerous. This is an ultra-hazardous sport... get the best face-to-face instruction you can find. Shop around, training varies tremendously. I drove twice as far to get excellent instruction (an extra hour each way). The part of the training that varies the most between locations is what happens AFTER you are cleared for self-supervision (such as after completing AFF). I was trained at a Skydive University campus... which is one format of excellent post-AFF instruction. It was worth every dime I paid for it! There are many other good programs, but you have to evaluate carefully what they offer.

3. If you absolutely demand to read something before your formal instruction, try something reputable like the USPA Skydiver Information Manual. Section 4 is the part for you:

http://www.uspa.org/SIM/Read/Section4/tabid/166/Default.aspx

+100

Please do not try to learn how to skydive via the internet.

Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

[borimex 0]

First of all sorry if I can't make myself clear, english is my second language... second I know I'm not qualified to give you advice but... I just want to SHARE MY EXPERIENCE with you. I have made 4 AFF jumps and ironically I landed perfectly on my first 3 jumps. My first AFF jump I was guided by my instructor to land by radio. The thingS that worked for me during this jump was remembering... 1. Relax, 2. Don't flare too high (in order to land), 3. Once you pull the flares is better to keep them pulled than letting them go cuz you will fall faster, and if you are close to the ground, that might hurt, 4. Land against the wind... In my second AFF jump the radio failed and I was all by myself... I just had confidence in what I was doing and I landed perfectly on my feet running!!! By my 3rd jump the radio was working again but I was trusting my instincts more than listening to the radio... Consecutively landing better each time until my last AFF... When I was preparing for landing I noticed I was a little bit far to make it to the landing area... I tried to make it but there was a fence that seemed pretty scary from where I was. I was there against the wind getting ready but suddenly I realized that there was a chance of me hitting the fence and decided to make a 180 turn at about 800Ft. By that time I was going with the wind... I did everything good but landing with the wind gave me some extra forward movement that was hard to deal when I touched the ground... Consequently I fell... Nothing serious!! But anyways it was worth it!! Now I know the importance of landing against the wind... And about the height perception... Try analyzing somebody else landing... try to visualize the physics involved in landing and try to see at approx. what altitude your instructors flare in order to land.. That helped me a lot too. Keep in mind that most skydiving accidents occur during landing so it is very important to have your helmet and a suit to prevent accidents.

Ohh and I almost forgot... No turns at low altitude!!
Trust your instincts... If your instincts tell you it is going to hurt, IT PROBABLY WILL!!