PD-R vs SMART

[hineshpatel 0]

In the process of putting new kit together and wondering what the differences (if any) there were between the PD-R143 & Smart 135.

I remember a coach back in Z-Hills telling me never to buy anything other than PD for my reserves, but that was largely unquantified.

I like PD for their reputation, however I am leaning toward Aerodyne as the product is newer (and hence should be more technologically advanced).

What are your experiences of either - good, bad or ugly? No marketing people pls lol....

Thanks in advance!

[thepollster 0]

The PDR is proven over approx. 15 years. There are many deployments that were outside of the design envelope in that time (overspeed, overweight) that we never heard about because the reserve is good enough to allow the jumper to survive mistakes. The PDR also has good flight characteristics.

The Smart is new. All the testing in the world won't show what happens in the real world. There is likely nothing wrong with the Smart, but wouldn't it suck to be the one who discovers a problem (by dying), just to save a few bucks, or to be able to say you have newer technology? Just remember, people used to say the Ravens were good, until they started blowing up.

[hineshpatel 0]

Agreed. There is no substitute for proven technology in the field. However, my point is in 15 years materials, processes and analytical tools have shifted leaps and bounds....

[apollard24 0]

PD has held its reputation very well but I will say that I have a Smart. I have only used it once so I cant say what it would do in any other situation but my experience was good. Great, soft landing. I think either choice would be good but Im sure some of riggers would be a better help on the quality and maintenance.

Breathe out so I can breathe you in...

[Vectracide 0]

Quote

The Smart is new. All the testing in the world won't show what happens in the real world. There is likely nothing wrong with the Smart, but wouldn't it suck to be the one who discovers a problem (by dying), just to save a few bucks, or to be able to say you have newer technology? Just remember, people used to say the Ravens were good, until they started blowing up.

First of all, I have had both reserves, but only saw the color of one of them. I have no allegiance to either, but I have to say something here.

The Smart is not new. Compared to the PD reserve, it is newER, but hardly new. Now under that train of thought, perhaps we should still be flying the mains of 10+ years ago and not all the new canopies that show up on a regular basis. Reserves undergo the most aggressive testing of any one canopy made by a specific company. To put one on the market means it has been in existence for several years and has 1000's of jumps in R&D. The Smart probably had more thourough testing than the PD reserve did, only because of advancements in the sport and technology. That brings me to another point. You say that the Smart is new technology. I don't quite understand your comment here, as the Smarts design is more like a conventional ram air canopy than the PD is. Hang both up next to a common place square, like a Sabre, and you will see striking similarities in design between the Smart and the Sabre. Then look at the cell shape and design of the PD compared to the Sabre. They are nothing alike. I'm serious about this. Get a demo from Smart and hang it up next to the PDR and look at the different characteristics with your rigger. Let him tell you what he thinks. Then go fly both of them. There is nothing like experience to satisfy the mind.

Now in reference to deployments outside the stated max weight, and speed, there is a buffer there. All canopies are tested and TSO'd over their max limits. Tested until they destroy themselves. Then the manufacturers set a limit based their findings. Both the PD and Smart will survive max+ deployments.....but that doesn't mean one should. Its a built in safety factor for the manufacturer.

If i was to make one statement about technology, it would be that Smart is doing very well, if anything is over built, and that the PD needs to refine their design some. But then again, why fix it if it ain't broke? PDR's have saved more lives than the Smart has had the opportunity to. Both work very well and will save your ass if you pull it out in time.

I say call PD and chat with them about it. Then call Smart and chat with them as well.

------------------------------

Controlled and Deliberate.....

[skybytch 273]

The PD143R is bigger than the Smart 135. A better comparison would be a PD126R and a Smart 135.

[crazydiver 0]

Quote

The PD143R is bigger than the Smart 135. A better comparison would be a PD126R and a Smart 135.

Only slightly. Either way they will be different size wise. But the pack volume of a pd126 and a smart 135 will be similar.

Cheers,
Travis

[peek 21]

Quote

...as the product is newer (and hence should be more technologically advanced).

Why?

(This is a philosophical question, not a gear question.

I'm in a way hijacking the thread because I am so often frustrated by comments like these.)

[crazydiver 0]

The technology that reserves are using are basically the same as the PD series. New technology advances are not so much in construction techniques, rather design changes, planform, squrefootage, bracing, valving, trims...etc. The smart, the micro raven series, PDs, tempos, and most other reserves we see now days (I realize the tempo is no longer in production) are very similar builds. The difference is in the stregnth and construction methods that PD uses. Incredible. The Pollster is right in the fact that there have been so many deployments of PD reserves outside their operating limits its crazy and its a VERY rare occasion to hear of PDs ripping, tearing, stalling abruptly on landing, and generally gettin fucked up from opening issues/speeds/weights. Virtually no other manufacturer can say the same.

And i've always been a person who tries to buy from other companies than PD to support different companies rather than the PD conglomerate. But after a while I simply realized that other companies are great, but no company is CONSISTANTLY as quality as PD. I'll consider buying a used reserve of another company, but if buying new, I'll never buy something other than a PD. I currently fly two PD reserves and two velocities and am in total support of both, probably even moreso the reserve!

*Edited for clarity

Cheers,
Travis

[HydroGuy 0]

The PD has a higher resale value...

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[sdctlc 0]

Quote

The PD has a higher resale value...

I think it currently is hard to say that from what I can and havae seen. The PD line is starting at a higher sell price compared to Smarts. Also not many smarts have popped up for sale, only 1 I think right now. To really compare you have to look at % below average sale price in comparison to the same vintage PD reserves, sub 5 year old. I have seen varying prices but the sample set is really small so still hard to tell.

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[grue 1]

I haven't flown a PDR, but I've got a ride on my Smart, and had no complaints. Opened quickly and smoothly, landed well, no issues.

cavete terrae.

[slotperfect 7]

The Smart is a reinforced 0-3 cfm Triathlon.

I participated in a side-by-side evaluation of four different sizes of PD and Smart. I jumped the PD 218R and Smart 220, loaded at 1.2:1. Both were built with bridle attachments and put on main risers.

I did 5 hop and pops from 6000 feet on each canopy. The PD openings were faster and on heading, while the Smart openings were (very) slightly slower with a 45 to 90 degree turn to the left on every one. Admittedly, deploying the canopies as mains rather than with a free bag is not a fair test of reserve opening characteristics.

Landing charactierstics were very similar. I was able to land the PD reserve a bit easier, but I got a little more glide out of the Smart.

My personal reserve choice is a PD.

Hope this helps.

Arrive Safely

John

[Shark 0]

What would your wing loading be on either of the two?

[mattjw916 2]

...and if I ever deploy my R-Max, I'll let you know how it goes!

That said hopefully Precision will be offering reserve demo jumps in the near future too (or at least a little birdie led me to believe...)

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[proswooper 2]

Actually due to differences in measuring the smart 135 is very similarly sized to the pd143.

The smart has more reinforcement in places other reserves have tended to blow up.

I have jumped both reserves on three rig set ups aswell as hooked up as mains in comparisons from a loading of 1.2 right up to 2.3 and they both have very good openings and landing characteristics although for obvious reasons the higher wingloading is not advisable for practicle application.

People tend to be very PD loyal for some reason and I am not here to tell you the smart is better or worse. I have a lot of R&D experience and i will tell you that both are fine products exceeding the required testing parameters.

They both have a high resale value if well maintained.

The question is not which is better for that is truely subjective. The only question you can really ask is which company do you prefer? and go with who takes care of you better and not necessarily in terms of money.

I hope this helps.

[GravityGirl 0]

I sell both. I have jumped both. I would have either in my rig.

I choose to have a PD reserve because I like the flight charactoristics slightly better. It glides in and out of the turns smoother.

Both are constructed well. Both flare great.

By the way, I jumped a PD113 and a Smart 120.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[skydiverek 63]

Hooknswoop believes SMART has inferior construction methods to PD-R. Read his arguments in these posts:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=smart&search_type=AND&search_fields=s&search_time=&search_user_username=hooknswoop&sb=score&mh=50

[RMURRAY 1]

Quote

In the process of putting new kit together and wondering what the differences (if any) there were between the PD-R143 & Smart 135.

I remember a coach back in Z-Hills telling me never to buy anything other than PD for my reserves, but that was largely unquantified.

I like PD for their reputation, however I am leaning toward Aerodyne as the product is newer (and hence should be more technologically advanced).

What are your experiences of either - good, bad or ugly? No marketing people pls lol....

Thanks in advance!

assuming you are buying used. I recently dumped my Raven 150-M and was shoping for either a PD143R or SMART 150. There were no SMARTS available so I went with a 10+ year old PD143R with 4 jumps on it. I would go with either - best price would determine which. Get the largest which will fit in your container. You will never look up and say "man, I should have bought a smaller reserve"...

rm

[justinb138 0]

I've got one terminal ride on a Smart 220, and I'm very pleased with it. It opened quickly and on-heading, but wasn't hard. Flew and landed very nicely too.


If/when I decide to get a smaller container, I'll probably put another one in it.

[mjosparky 4]

[Reginald 0]

Quote

Quote

...as the product is newer (and hence should be more technologically advanced).

Why?

I've got to second this. I don't think your logic is necessarly sound.

PD has the most respected reserve in the business. You CAN buy a newer model from another company and it will likely be just fine. However, with a PD-r there are no doubts.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[peckerhead 0]

I have a PD 160, a Tempo 150, and a Smart 160 in my 3 rigs.

I would not hesitate to ride any one of them and I have no doubt they would perform as designed if needed.

The "PD only" crowd seems to think they are somehow safer but there is really no empirical evidence to support this belief. Many are overloading their reserves but think the brand name will somehow make everything alright.

As mentioned get the reserve that is the right SIZE for you weight and ability. The bigger the better.

[Vectracide 0]

My bad, I meant 100's of jumps.....one too many 0's.

And I think I covered the dangers of overloading a reserve.

------------------------------

Controlled and Deliberate.....

[tbrown 26]

Quote

Quote

Quote

...as the product is newer (and hence should be more technologically advanced).

PD has the most respected reserve in the business. You CAN buy a newer model from another company and it will likely be just fine. However, with a PD-r there are no doubts.

I have a PD193R packed in my rig, though so far I've only seen it indoors. According to what I've read, PD reserves are based on the design of the 7 cell F-111 main canopies PD made and sold in the eighties, with some appropriate modifications for use as a reserve. Which is just fine, as their track record is outstanding, they've been around for twenty years now.

Aerodyne has made a point in their advertising for the Smart that the canopy is a "new" design. Smart ads say that the competition hasn't introduced any new wing designs in many years, which is probably true enough and all's fair in war and advertising. I've got some friends who jump Smart reserves and a few of them have even taken a ride under them. It's tough when your biggest competitor has a twenty year track record that you can't catch up to, so you're going to stress the innovations in your design. I'd buy either one with confidence, but since I've already got my PD, I have no reason to want to change a thing.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

• Quote