Grip/method for full flare?

[emmiwy 0]

Quote

Emily, been fun watching you progress. You're kickin' em' out. Congrats!
Don't worry about wraps. The rigs you're jumping are set up just fine, and your flares (on the jumps I've seen), have been just right.

Keep knockin' em' out and you'll have your A soon enough. Let's hope for good weather this weekend!

DSE, thanks! :) Sorry I don't recognize you by name/handle--I don't believe we've met. I'm pleasantly surprised to finally see someone on here that is from Elsinore because I thought I was the only one who is so active on this site [it's the only thing I can do when I'm not jumping on the weekend]. Though there are many instructors on the weekends that I haven't met yet but see pretty regularly. Anyway thanks again ! Weather is looking more promising Sunday :)

[thrillstalker 0]

i purposefully didn't explain what a wrap is because if done wrong it can stall the canopy which is VERY DANGEROUS near the ground. your instructor said you are doing great, so keep it up.

good luck and blue skies

"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

[sebcat 0]

Quote

i purposefully didn't explain what a wrap is because if done wrong it can stall the canopy which is VERY DANGEROUS near the ground. your instructor said you are doing great, so keep it up.

Once off student status it's possible to get a canopy that's able to stall without wrapping the lines around your hands (which I guess is what you're referring to) so discussing why it's a bad idea in the first place, and why the control lines on a student canopy is longer is IMHO better than withholding information.

[thrillstalker 0]

Quote

Quote

i purposefully didn't explain what a wrap is because if done wrong it can stall the canopy which is VERY DANGEROUS near the ground. your instructor said you are doing great, so keep it up.

Once off student status it's possible to get a canopy that's able to stall without wrapping the lines around your hands (which I guess is what you're referring to) so discussing why it's a bad idea in the first place, and why the control lines on a student canopy is longer is IMHO better than withholding information.

yes, i was referring to shortening the steering lines by wrapping them around your hands. to the op, you can only brake a canopy so hard, it has a stall point. if you exceed the stall point (meaning you pull the toggles down too far) it will cause the canopy to collapse (all air leaves it and you have a ball of shit above you). the steering lines on a student canopy are longer than on most sport rigs (this is to keep the student from flaring to hard and collapsing the canopy). by wrapping (literally wrapping the the steering lines around your hand) it takes those few inches of line away and leaves the steering lines shorter, meaning a full flare will occur the x amount of inches you have wrapped earlier (instead of a full flare at your crotch it will be at your belly button [an example only]). the reason i suggested that this might be a possibility is because it would allow someone that is lacking the arm length without a wrap to get a full flare with a wrap. i am not an experienced jumper so thats why i asked the question to the experienced jumpers.

sebcat's point that the information needed to be shared is a good one. when you do start jumping non student equipment there is a real chance of a stall occurring because the steering lines wont be student proof (they will be shorter so the stall point will occur sooner than it would with longer steering lines).

when you do start jumping non student gear, sit down with an instructor and ask them about stall points (especially how to find it, it's a lot of fun). knowing the stall point is a must on any canopy you jump because you need to know the limits so you wont flare to hard.


whew!

"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Quote

...when you do start jumping non student gear, sit down with an instructor and ask them about stall points (especially how to find it, it's a lot of fun). knowing the stall point is a must on any canopy you jump because you need to know the limits so you wont flare to hard.


whew!

Or at a later point in your training, have the instructor go over it. A big DZ like Elsinore probably has advanced student gear (a bit smaller) that the OP would advance to that would be suitable for stall training.

I fully agree that it's an important thing to know.

Airplane pilots are required to do full stalls as part of their training. Flight instructors are required to have spin recovery training.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[emmiwy 0]

Quote

Quote

...when you do start jumping non student gear, sit down with an instructor and ask them about stall points (especially how to find it, it's a lot of fun). knowing the stall point is a must on any canopy you jump because you need to know the limits so you wont flare to hard.


whew!

Or at a later point in your training, have the instructor go over it. A big DZ like Elsinore probably has advanced student gear (a bit smaller) that the OP would advance to that would be suitable for stall training.

I fully agree that it's an important thing to know.

Airplane pilots are required to do full stalls as part of their training. Flight instructors are required to have spin recovery training.

Thanks guys. Yeah I think I'm coming up on that point that I have to learn and become comfortable with how to deal with dynamic stalls and such. Last weekend I successfully stood up on a braked approach+landing: I thought I felt a small stall when it came but was able to execute the full flare at the right distance before landing.

Don't worry I won't be doing any wrapping of toggles any time soon, that just sounds crazy. :) I was trying rear riser turns; pulling on the risers gets me a little nervous, I don't think I even did a full turn. Plus under I am still very hesitant to pull brakes too hard for a in case I stall/collapse the canopy.

[thrillstalker 0]

i understand the nervousness with the riser turns, i had it too. one of the reasons they teach this is because it is very helpful in avoiding collisions if you have an off heading opening while jumping in groups. say you pitch and get turned 180degrees, you are now facing another jumper under canopy but your toggles are stowed, what do you do??? grab the rear riser and turn, thus avoiding the other jumper. the thing that helped my nervousness was just getting used to it. i made a jump and didnt do any toggle turns till i was around 1500. maybe it'll help.

"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

[emmiwy 0]

Quote

i understand the nervousness with the riser turns, i had it too. one of the reasons they teach this is because it is very helpful in avoiding collisions if you have an off heading opening while jumping in groups. say you pitch and get turned 180degrees, you are now facing another jumper under canopy but your toggles are stowed, what do you do??? grab the rear riser and turn, thus avoiding the other jumper. the thing that helped my nervousness was just getting used to it. i made a jump and didnt do any toggle turns till i was around 1500. maybe it'll help.

Yeah you're right I think it'll just take more practice and comfort, thanks for the advice. I think I have an innate fear that under canopy I'm going to somehow disengage the harness from the canopy by pulling the risers. That coupled with the fact that I still have to get a bit more used to canopy dives/spiraling; toggle turns seem more responsive, while I really have to pull hard on the risers to make a turn.

This of course makes no sense now that I think of it--one of my instructors told me the actual pressure/force required for the rings on the risers to break. Its impossible for me to achieve this by me simply pulling on them. :)

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Those fears aren't rational. Fear usually isn't. Doesn't make it any less scary, until you stop and think it all the way through.

Riser pressure is different than toggle pressure. That's why landing a canopy on risers (if you break a steering line for example) is a lot different than a normal flare with toggles.

Thrillstalker is correct. The first thing I do after opening is look around for any traffic conflicts and use risers to turn away from them (or towards the DZ) . It's a way to turn right now, without having to find and unstow the toggles.

One of the advantages of being a student and opening high is that you have a lot of time under canopy.

Talk to your instructors and get some ideas for what you should be practicing under canopy. Both before you unstow the toggles and after.
Some of the stuff is progressive (you want to practice "A" and get comfortable with it before trying "B"), so don't just go up and do random stuff the idiots on here (including me) suggest.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[DocPop 1]

Think about it this way - when you pull down on a riser (front or rear), you are actually taking weight OFF the 3-ring release (by supporting some of your weight on your arm), so you really are not going to pull the riser off the harness.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA