Those twisty energy-saving light bulbs

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

Quote

Where do they get the mercury from?

Doesn't it come from the environment?

I think it comes mostly from South America and is processed in China.


Perfectly safe.

My point is - it was already IN the environment - how can it be harming it now?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

>They are more harmful to the environment, as they contain mercury,
>which is a highly toxic metal.

The bulbs contain ~4 milligrams of mercury and last about 5 years on average. This ends up either in a recycling center or in a landfill.

Over the course of its life, a 26 watter will save about 890 kilowatt-hours. That saves 5.3 milligrams of mercury from ending up in the air, assuming that 50% of our power comes from coal. (It's actually around 52%.) This metal is emitted directly into the air and ends up in your water, food etc.

So the question becomes - is it better to have 4 milligrams of mercury in a recycling center or landfill, or 5.3 milligrams of mercury in the air?

It's just not that simple. What do you think of the discussion HERE?

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Where do they get the mercury from?

Doesn't it come from the environment?

I think it comes mostly from South America and is processed in China.


Perfectly safe.

My point is - it was already IN the environment - how can it be harming it now?

Chemical form, solubility, airborne perhaps, maybe it even finds it's way into the food chain?

Edit: Here's a reference for ya

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Where do they get the mercury from?

Doesn't it come from the environment?

I think it comes mostly from South America and is processed in China.


Perfectly safe.

My point is - it was already IN the environment - how can it be harming it now?

Chemical form, solubility, airborne perhaps, maybe it even finds it's way into the food chain?

Edit: Here's a reference for ya

Ok - again - my point is that it isn't HARMING The environment - it is changing the environment in a way that is disliked by the individuals that say it is harmful.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[dannydan 5]

Case in point.... "Berenger Commons" Urbana Illinois! These homes are the foam block concrete filled walls.... I saw the energy bills (as I was a sub contractor on quite a few of them) The avg monthly bill on ELECTRIC ONLY was $126.00 USD!!! These homes use electric only! NO NatGas no LP NO fireplaces.... That was back in 2002 tho! have not seen any rates or avg's on them since then.... Maybe I shall go see. and report back!

Of course these homes are VERY airTIGHT! Something I do not like, but hey! And quiet.... damn are they quiet. major two lane hwy about 30yrds away from doors and windows and one can barely hear the ambulance, police etc sirens wizzz by!

EDIT ad in here;

Of course the FOAM is probably not earth friendly! duh.... I have a few of these twisty bulbs in my home for the time being (on a trial basis) One thing I noticed right away was that there is a "WARM Up" time to them! Meaning that a 100watter took a few minutes to actually get uP to its brightest amnient light! Think I will grab my light meter from work and bring it home and chk out the lumens!

As far as "earth friendly"shit, I believe the earth will eventually take care of Herself from the damage that MAN has caused on Her.... SO that means WE WILL ALL eat shit soon!!!

COOL cant wait!

[billvon 3,063]

>What do you think of the discussion HERE?

?? Basically agrees with the above. They get 7.6mg instead of 5.3, which I suspect is because they are in an area that uses more coal power (some areas of Appalachia get 99% of their power from coal.)

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

>What do you think of the discussion HERE?

?? Basically agrees with the above. They get 7.6mg instead of 5.3, which I suspect is because they are in an area that uses more coal power (some areas of Appalachia get 99% of their power from coal.)

Did you read all the comments too?

[billvon 3,063]

>Ok - again - my point is that it isn't HARMING The environment - it
> is changing the environment in a way that is disliked by the individuals
> that say it is harmful.

Arsenic is natural as well. But if someone moved a significant amount from the dirt into you, you'd be hatin' life. You might even say it would be harming you.

[Icon134 0]

I use a CF in my garage... primarily because the colder temperature in my garage (or at least the temperature extremes) seem to have caused me to go through a much larger number of incandessant bulbs (I think I replaced about 3 in a 6 month window) for some reason (maybe there isn't as high a temperature when the CF on vs off) the CF bulb I bought last winter is still functional... (of course saying this will probably result in its failure this evening... )

Scott

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[billvon 3,063]

>Did you read all the comments too?

Yep.

About a year ago I broke a mercury switch in one of my parts drawers. The mercury is still sitting there, rolling around.

As someone in the comments pointed out, even if the bulb was destroyed by an explosion or violent impact while it was operating (such that all the mercury was vaporized instantly) it would still be below the OSHA 8-hour exposure limits. In most cases, of course, the bulb breaks and the liquid mercury just sits there.

[monkycndo 0]

There is the exposure limit for humans, and the limit what can be disposed of in a landfill. I was on a project where we upgraded all the old T-12 tubes with T-8s. We had so many old tubes, they had to be shipped to a special disposal site to contain all the mercury.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

>Did you read all the comments too?

Yep.

Fair enough ... so, you are aware that there are various opinions expressed there about the reliability of the estimates.

Quote

About a year ago I broke a mercury switch in one of my parts drawers. The mercury is still sitting there, rolling around.

As someone in the comments pointed out, even if the bulb was destroyed by an explosion or violent impact while it was operating (such that all the mercury was vaporized instantly) it would still be below the OSHA 8-hour exposure limits. In most cases, of course, the bulb breaks and the liquid mercury just sits there,

I would do the same. That mercury is not in a very dangerous form.


Anyway ... the environmental issue is a whole other subject.

============
In my situation, using twisty bulbs in the winter, saves absolutely no energy.
I use electric heat. Fortunately it's from a nuke so the mercury emission debate is moot in my case, at least as it applies to the power plant operations. The efficiency of the power plant is the utility's problem, not mine

I, like many other people, am faced with two realistic choices.

GAS (in my case propane @ 5.2 cents per kWh) or ELECTRIC (in my case 4.8 cents per kWh)

Using those godawful, twisty "energy saving" light bulbs in the winter here saves 0.0 kWh of energy.

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

I use a CF in my garage... primarily because the colder temperature in my garage (or at least the temperature extremes) seem to have caused me to go through a much larger number of incandessant bulbs (I think I replaced about 3 in a 6 month window) for some reason (maybe there isn't as high a temperature when the CF on vs off) the CF bulb I bought last winter is still functional... (of course saying this will probably result in its failure this evening... )

Scott

Yup ... they are definitely long-lasting. I just really hate the light they put out.

[billvon 3,063]

>using twisty bulbs in the winter, saves absolutely no energy.

Well, it does save energy; you use 3/4 less energy with CF's than with incandescents if you burn oil or gas to make up for the lack of additional heat. (See above.) But if electricity in your area is cheap, wasting that energy may not be the end of the world.

Do you change all the bulbs in the summer? Or do you not have an air conditioner due to your climate?

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

>using twisty bulbs in the winter, saves absolutely no energy.

Well, it does save energy; you use 3/4 less energy with CF's than with incandescents if you burn oil or gas to make up for the lack of additional heat. (See above.) But if electricity in your area is cheap, wasting that energy may not be the end of the world.

Do you change all the bulbs in the summer? Or do you not have an air conditioner due to your climate?

A kWh is a kWh...it doesn't matter whether you "make it up" with an incandescent bulb, the computer, the compressor in the refrigerator or any other electric appliance in the house. A 40W CF uses just as much energy as a 40W incandescent bulb. Period. Virtually ALL of that energy ends up as heat.

What I do in the summer is not part of this discussion. My point is that those stupid little twisty bulbs (or even turning of my computers when I'm not using them) in the WINTER saves ZERO energy in my case because I heat my house with electricity. Since the cost of gas and electric is just about the same in my area, it doesn't matter in terms of money, actually which one I use to heat my home.

==============
Wasting Energy:

No I don't change my bulbs in the summer. I wish you hadn't used your godlike Moderator power last night to delete the post I made where I explained why I don't really think it means the "end of the world" for me to "waste" energy. I like to waste energy all of the time As do many of us here on DZ.COM ... about $200 worth every weekend at the dropzone using airplane fuel - that's about $800/mo. of energy that I "waste" every month in the summer just jumping out of airplanes because I like it.

Believe me, the amount of energy I would save in the summer with those stupid little twisty light bulbs is INSIGNIFICANT to the amount of energy I waste doing other stuff that I like to do.

[Muenkel 0]

This whole mandatory movement to flourescent bulbs is pissing me off. The main reason is that they are not good for people who suffer from migraines or have a seizure disorder. I have both.

Don't misunderstand me, I use them and place them in strategic locations such as outdoor lighting and places where I will not be sitting for a while. I resent the fact that the government is going to tell me that I must use them everywhere in my home.

Also, if they break, make sure you don't use your vacuum cleaner to clean up the glass. You have to use rubber gloves and all sorts of other shit. Hell, you may have to call HAZMAT.

_________________________________________
Chris

[billvon 3,063]

>A kWh is a kWh...it doesn't matter whether you "make it up" with
>an incandescent bulb, the computer, the compressor in the refrigerator or
>any other electric appliance in the house.

Correct. And with electric power, most of that heat takes place outside your house. (That's the 80% you DON'T get.) But as you mention, the heat you use all ends up inside your house, no matter what the external inefficiencies are.

>A 40W CF uses just as much energy as a 40W incandescent bulb. Period.
>Virtually ALL of that energy ends up as heat.

Yes. But in the case of the 40 watt CF you get 3x as much light.

>What I do in the summer is not part of this discussion.

Yes it is - you are discussing it! And they decrease the heat load in your house. This means:

1) when it is hot, you use several times less power. Less to run the light, and less to run the A/C getting rid of the heat.

2) when it is hotter, and the A/C is maxed out, then your house will be cooler when you have CF's.

>Since the cost of gas and electric is just about the same in my area, it
>doesn't matter in terms of money, actually which one I use to heat my
>home.

Agreed. You use far more energy than had you used gas, but it may not cost any more.

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

>A kWh is a kWh...it doesn't matter whether you "make it up" with
>an incandescent bulb, the computer, the compressor in the refrigerator or
>any other electric appliance in the house.

Correct. And with electric power, most of that heat takes place outside your house. (That's the 80% you DON'T get.) But as you mention, the heat you use all ends up inside your house, no matter what the external inefficiencies are.

>A 40W CF uses just as much energy as a 40W incandescent bulb. Period.
>Virtually ALL of that energy ends up as heat.

Yes. But in the case of the 40 watt CF you get 3x as much light.

You call THAT light!!!

Quote

>What I do in the summer is not part of this discussion.

Yes it is -

Alrighty then!

Quote

>Since the cost of gas and electric is just about the same in my area, it
>doesn't matter in terms of money, actually which one I use to heat my
>home.

Agreed. You use far more energy than had you used gas, but it may not cost any more.

OK, Bill, you're an engineer, and I know that you totally understand what I am saying.

I live in a box. That box has energy inputs. Various entities supply various different inputs. I have no control over how those entities get that energy to me. I can choose which of those inputs I use and when.

There are marketers out there who are trying to get me to use their products by making all kinds of claims ... I am the one who should be able to decide whether their particular claims have any merit in my situation. Those marketers, however, have succeeded in convincing the idiots in the government that their products are better in all situations. So, soon I will be forced to use only their products to light my house.

Yes ... there are many, MANY, issues to consider if one wants to figure out just what exactly is happening and why with respect to how the energy sellers get their product to me. There is a bewildering number of terms to the equation that takes everything into account. There are political, economic, social, environmental, and technical factors that have to be considered. You can't just simply say that "you use far more energy than had you used gas," therefore the world is better off if everyone were forced to use those stupid twisty little light bulbs in place of the others. Well, I guess you can, and apparently the government can. I'm not buying it.

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

Also, if they break, make sure you don't use your vacuum cleaner to clean up the glass. You have to use rubber gloves and all sorts of other shit. Hell, you may have to call HAZMAT.

They're not really that dangerous. But yeah, I'm sure that in an elementary school, all it will take is for one litigious parent to bring this up and, yes the guys in Tyvek suits will have to be called in to change the light bulbs from then on.

[kallend 2,106]

Quote

Quote

My only qualm with them is when you first turn on some of them...they are fairly dim.. but as they warm up they get full luminosity.

That's exactly my experience. As my light bulbs die, I've been replacing them with compact fluorescents (well, except for the two halogen fixtures I have in the family room, obviously). I don't have any plans to change from that.

The one light that I'd prefer to be full brightness right from the first is the one over the desk, and it's a regular fluorescent, so it doesn't matter.

Wendy W.

I have them in my (unheated) garage and on the front porch. In the Chicago winter these take quite a LONG time to come up to full intensity and can be very dim when first turned on.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,106]

Quote

Quote

>Did you read all the comments too?

Yep.

Fair enough ... so, you are aware that there are various opinions expressed there about the reliability of the estimates.

Quote

About a year ago I broke a mercury switch in one of my parts drawers. The mercury is still sitting there, rolling around.

As someone in the comments pointed out, even if the bulb was destroyed by an explosion or violent impact while it was operating (such that all the mercury was vaporized instantly) it would still be below the OSHA 8-hour exposure limits. In most cases, of course, the bulb breaks and the liquid mercury just sits there,

I would do the same. That mercury is not in a very dangerous form.


Anyway ... the environmental issue is a whole other subject.

============
In my situation, using twisty bulbs in the winter, saves absolutely no energy.
I use electric heat. Fortunately it's from a nuke so the mercury emission debate is moot in my case, at least as it applies to the power plant operations. The efficiency of the power plant is the utility's problem, not mine

I, like many other people, am faced with two realistic choices.

GAS (in my case propane @ 5.2 cents per kWh) or ELECTRIC (in my case 4.8 cents per kWh)

Using those godawful, twisty "energy saving" light bulbs in the winter here saves 0.0 kWh of energy.

I grew up before mercury was toxic, so the Hg content doesn't bother me. We used to play with it, stick glass thermometers full of Hg in our mouths, use it by the kilo in barometers, etc. My brother did his PhD on the chemistry of dimethyl mercury, before organo-mercury compounds became toxic.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

I grew up before mercury was toxic, so the Hg content doesn't bother me. We used to play with it, stick glass thermometers full of Hg in our mouths, use it by the kilo in barometers, etc. My brother did his PhD on the chemistry of dimethyl mercury, before organo-mercury compounds became toxic.

Yah ... I hear you ... my mother's father actually ran a mercury mine in Hungary. My mother remembers having coke bottles full of metallic mercury just sitting around the house and my uncles playing with it all the time. It's actually pretty amazing stuff.

[jonstark 8]

I had the state come and give my house an energy audit. When he was done he gave ma a couple dozen of the curly lights and told me they are best used where the light will be on for at least a couple hours continuously over the course of the day. I have them where we leave the lights on most and find them to be plenty bright after they warm up which is about a minute.

The local hardware store has them for under a dollar each. I don't have them everywhere and I don't have any way to make an energy comparison but they're fine by me.

jon

[Gawain 0]

Quote

I've been buying the ones that CLAIM to be as bright as a 60W incandescent bulb, but the fact is that the light they give off is dimmer and more yellowish than the soft-white incandescent bulbs I'd been using.

I'd like to not have to change bulbs so often, and save energy, but the twisty bulbs are not all that they claim.

You are not alone with that sentiment. Too bad though, incandescent bulbs will be phased out over the next several years.

I've not tried them yet, but have you looked at any LED bulbs?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[JohnMitchell 16]

I have an LED flashlight and love it. Great light, long lasting bulb, and the battery life is good too. We have a lot of fluorescent lights in the house, too. The light is just fine after they warm up. I especially like them for the porch lights. We leave those on all night, so we're saving electricity there, plus the bulb life is much, much longer. I was replacing my fancy incandescents out there all the time. I also like fluorescents in the kids' rooms, since they seem to be stymied by the operation of light switches.

In Washington, there are many rebates in effect for fluorescent lights. My last couple of dozen were free. I only had to pay sales tax of 35 cents a bulb.