Moved from Incidents - Ground cutaway issues with RSL

[DanG 1]

If it only takes 1 second to disconnect the RSL, and it such an easy procedure, why not disconnect it after touchdown?

In reality, sinple things like collapsing a slider, undoing a chest strap, discconnecting an RSL, etc. may take more time than anticipated and lead to fixation. Your first priority should be flying the canopy to a safe landing. If you're freaked out about getting dragged, feel free to disconnect your RSL after you've achieved your first priority. If your procedure is to always disconnect the RSL in questionable conditions, do yourself a favor and it remove it from your rig.

- Dan G

[popsjumper 2]

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If it only takes 1 second to disconnect the RSL, and it such an easy procedure

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In reality, sinple things like collapsing a slider, undoing a chest strap, discconnecting an RSL, etc. may take more time than anticipated

Conflicting statements

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feel free to disconnect your RSL after you've achieved your first priority

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Question: This is better than disconnecting prior to landing and being dragged? How much time do you have to do this while being dragged off a building, say?

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If your procedure is to always disconnect the RSL in questionable conditions, do yourself a favor and it remove it from your rig.

Not good advice for anyone...much less any youngsters listening in. On top of that, you're assuming a lot about me and what equipment I have installed on my own rigs.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[billvon 2,991]

>Not good advice for anyone...much less any youngsters listening in.

Good advice, actually. RSL's are most needed for low cutaways; they help get a reserve out in time even if you cut away lower than your normal decision height. If you are going to disconnect it regularly, then you a) have added another step to your under-canopy work and b) you no longer have the protection the RSL affords for lower cutaways.

[DanG 1]

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Conflicting statements

That was my point. Your argument was that it only takes a second. I disagree. But if you think it only takes a second, why not do it on the ground?

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Question: This is better than disconnecting prior to landing and being dragged? How much time do you have to do this while being dragged off a building, say?

My point is that you would be better advised to spend your time avoiding the building that fussing with your RSL. You can't have it both ways. Either it is a simple procedure that takes a mere second, or it is too time consuming to do once on the ground. If it is too hard and time consuming to do on the ground, it is too hard and time consuming to do in the air.

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Not good advice for anyone...much less any youngsters listening in. On top of that, you're assuming a lot about me and what equipment I have installed on my own rigs.

"You" was not meant to be you, popsjumper. I meant that advice for anyone. Why have a safety device installed if you think it will regularly necesitate in-air rigging?

Also, if you want to train young-ums something about high wind landings, teach them how to control their canopy if they find themselves landing in winds higher than expected. It can be a great wind-hold training activity.

- Dan G

[popsjumper 2]

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>Not good advice for anyone...much less any youngsters listening in.

Good advice, actually. RSL's are most needed for low cutaways; they help get a reserve out in time even if you cut away lower than your normal decision height. If you are going to disconnect it regularly, then you a) have added another step to your under-canopy work and b) you no longer have the protection the RSL affords for lower cutaways.

Nasty assumption that one would disconnect it while it still may be needed....We're talking lower altitudes here...Apparently you missed that part.

Try again, Bill.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Sorry, DanG...YOU made the conflicting statement.
Show me where I said anything other than it takes only a second or so.

You and others seem to think it's a complicated procedure. You and others seem to think that we're talking last-minute action.

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If it is too hard and time consuming to do on the ground, it is too hard and time consuming to do in the air.

Just plain wrong and missing the point entirely. Being dragged is a lot different than sitting in the saddle.

But...meh have it your way. I'll take the more common-sense way thank you.

And I'll defer to:
SIM Section 4 C-3-a

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

If you think disconnecting your RSL under canopy is going to be a problem for you, may I suggest:

Practice it up high without actually pulling the snap shackle off. Here's what you do:
1) Clear your airspace.
2) Check your line of flight.
3) Look at your RSL.
4) With your hands in the toggles, reach for the RSL with both hands and just touch it.
5) Look back up to verify your airspace and line of flight.
6) Simulate the disconnect.
7) Let your toggles back up and return to full flight.

Practice it until you are comfortable that doing this under canopy is not the die-all that some are making it out to be.

WTH, this would be a good thing for everyone to practice if you haven't done so before.

And, just to satisfy the nay-sayers, yes, if you've never practiced this, it may be a problem for you at crunch time....especially when the edge of that building is fast approaching you...or when that river is tumbling you around...or when the wind is dragging you along the ground.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[DanG 1]

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SIM Section 4 C-3-a

I don't have my printed SIM handy. In the online version there is nothing in Section 4, Category C about disconnecting the RSL under canopy. Can you quote the passage you are defering to?

I never said I thought it was a complicated procedure. I said that focusing on it may lead people to become fixated on something that will only help them in a very few cases to the detriment of flying their parachute to a safe landing area. Collapsing the slider is even easier than disconnecting an RSL, but there are many instances of people being so focused on collapsing a recalcitrant slider that they lose track of altitude or position.

- Dan G

[DiverMike 5]

He must have typo'd it. It is actually in section 4, Category E, 3, a

Page 68:

3. Procedures for high-wind landings
a. Before landing, disconnect the RSL as a
precaution in case a cutaway becomes necessary
to prevent being dragged.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[DanG 1]

Cool. Thank you.

We should also note 4-E-3-d:

d. After landing, cut away if necessary (with an SOS, cutting away may open the reserve container, but only the reserve pilot chute will likely deploy).

- Dan G

[billvon 2,991]

>Practice it up high without actually pulling the snap shackle off.

Good recommendation. That sort of practice also works on the ground.

[billvon 2,991]

>Nasty assumption that one would disconnect it while it still may be
>needed....We're talking lower altitudes here...Apparently you missed that
>part.

Nope. If you are really suggesting that people wait until a few hundred feet before they land in an unsafe area, then that's very bad advice indeed.

At 200 feet above the ground, when your landing is going to be bad, you had better devote every bit of your attention to survival. At that point flying the canopy is the jumpers most important job, not:

- Check your line of flight.
- Look at your RSL.
- With your hands in the toggles, reach for the RSL with both hands and - - -wham

[popsjumper 2]

OK, Bill you're being purposely obtuse. It doesn't become you.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[DanG 1]

What altitude are you suggesting people disconnect their RSL?

- Dan G

[riggerpaul 1]

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What altitude are you suggesting people disconnect their RSL?

Here's something I said before

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When do you first get the notion that the winds are honking more than you expected?

As soon as you know you are keeping the parachute you have, and you know that there are no immediate traffic problems, you should begin to evaluate your landing situation.

I am not saying you fixate on it for the entire trip down, but the sooner you give it some consideration, the more time you have to plan your response. If all is well, fine, go have some fun for a while. But if you see that things might get more interesting, you should be coming up with a plan. Don't waste precious altitude before you are sure you don't need it for something more important.

As soon as you notice that the wind might be a problem, that's as good a time as any to disconnect the RSL.

Make the decision as early as you can. You shouldn't have to wait until you are very low and busy with other things.

So, how high? As high as you can. As soon as you know you might need it.

If it bothers a jumper to not have the RSL hooked up, then that jumper should be extra cautious to not do anything that might require a cut away after the RSL has been disconnected.

[AndyMan 7]

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OK, Bill you're being purposely obtuse. It doesn't become you.

I don't think so at all.

Low altitudes are precisely the point when RSL's are most helpful. To disconnect "because you're low" is just dumb.

Once you get below the altitude where RSL's are useful, at this point the jumper should be focusing on flying his pattern and landing safely - not futzing with his RSL.

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.