robinheid 0 #51 February 4, 2010 Quote BTW, Paul, Jan, Robin, are any of you a current instructor dealing with the current wave of students, in this modern age of skydiving, tandem mills, youtube, and media? Then I'm wondering who you are all talking about when you say "WE" are doing a bad job of training people. I don't believe you fully understand the challenges. This is even more off-topic than most of what you've been offering in this thread, but since you've clearly implied that Paul, Jan and I are clueless about the "modern age of skydiving," let me offer you some perspective and bring you back on-topic: 1) Paul, Jan and I have decades more experience in sport parachuting than do you. I also have military parachuting experience (as may Paul), and teaching experience of more than 30 years in parachuting and several other areas. Jan has coached and organized and otherwise been a teacher and a leader for longer than you have been skydiving. (I can't speak for Paul because I know him only through the clarity of his thought in the USPA Safety Day threads.) 2) While I did not support Jan's reelection to the board (because i think she's more effective as an independent agent rather than part of a group), I said then and say again now that she is an extremely knowledgeable, committed and capable sport parachutist and if "we" had another 100 like her, the sport would be much richer for it... in significant part because she thinks about things and understands the sport at multiple levels. Paul is also a multiple-level thinker and obviously a high speed guy all-around. 3) Again, I cannot speak about Paul but it is precisely because Jan and I are not "current instructor(s) dealing with the current wave of students, in this modern age of skydiving" that gives us the perspective you so clearly lack when it comes to discussing the "50,000 foot" issues associated with the Safety Day ad. You seem to be operating at about 3,000 feet - climbing exit altitude, you might say - which leads you to impugn us because we aren't "current instructor(s), as if that has any bearing on the discussion or the validity of our contributions thereto... and which apparently makes it hard for you to, uh... "understand the challenges" faced by DZ owners and others in sport parachuting for whom a 50,000-foot view is vital to their survival - and therefore the survival of sport parachuting. Because the bottom line is the bottom line: If the economic and legal climate makes it impossible to make money running a drop zone, then there will be no drop zones - and what USPA has done with this brain-dead declaration is make the legal climate more dangerous and less safe for DZOs. It is in fact Paul's concerns over these kinds of long-range ramifications that led to these threads, so I implore you to stop with the sly little PAs and start thinking about what "we're" trying to help you learn. d5533 base44 ccs37SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #52 February 4, 2010 Quote3 fatalities in less than 5 years. Not to mention injuries, aircraft damage, and endangering a plane load of jumpers. Now you sound like a whuffo media reporter. The 3 fatalities at Lodi were 2 on a CRW load that went very bad and one ff-canopy collision. Those could have happened at any DZ anywhere and no one would cast aspersions upon the DZO. Injuries happen at all DZs too. AC damage, well gee whiz, your alma mater had an otter stall on jumprun that caused $40K worth of damage. I was on that load. The DZO had the nerve to ask the people on the load to sign a statement saying that it was their fault that the AC stalled. Only two of the NGs signed that statement because they didn't know any better. And on top of all that, political manure-ing managed to get USPA's insurance to pay that repair bill. Then there was another big DZ to the south that had a collision between an otter and a wingsuiter. - Actually two such incidents now at two DZs. The first DZ paid for repairs on its own. I do not know the disposition of the more recent accident. In fact the more recent accident could also be considered to be well within the realm of teaching the jumper what to do or not to do on exit. eg The exits for such-n-such situation are safe when you do this and that. If you don't do this or that, you might hit the tail. JP, your blatant biased opinions are going to hurt you. It's one thing for a DZO to use the mantra of "my way or the highway". It is totally different if USPA or any of its agents say "my way or the highway" because someone objects to a statement made by the borganization. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #53 February 4, 2010 QuoteQuote JP, your 'my way or the highway' attitude sucks. I'm glad you didn't get elected. How much Kool-Aid have you drank? BTW, the anti-trust policy of USPA that requires GMs to demand that their customers be USPA members will be tested eventually one way or another. Sorry you feel that way. I think you completely misunderstand my attitude. As for Kool-Aid, I prefer Cherry. I assure you, my thoughts are my own, safety to me is paramount to any other concerns in this matter. It just so happens my thoughts on how to keep this situation safe are in line with USPA's thinking. Got news for you, the borganization does not think, it acts primarily on political or financial expediency. QuoteJan: Again my thoughts are my own, and I am sorry you feel that way, but as an S&TA, pilot, and instructor who is often very far from the door to be making an emergency exit with a student I'll continue to insist on jumpruns being level, with flaps in many aircraft, and a power reduction. JP, when you start slinging credentials around you are asking people to judge you by the color of your skin and not the content of your character. QuoteHow many fatalities have we seen from hot fueling, or loading while spinning props? Now how many have wee seen from collisions with the tails of airplanes? And of those how many we climbing aircraft? Need me to go get those numbers for you? Yeah, why don't you go get those numbers and see if it agrees with the numbers I have. QuoteBTW, Paul, Jan, Robin, are any of you a current instructor dealing with the current wave of students, in this modern age of skydiving, tandem mills, youtube, and media? Then I'm wondering who you are all talking about when you say "WE" are doing a bad job of training people. I don't believe you fully understand the challenges. Rule #345 Never state that so-n-so said such-n-such unless you have a quote. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #54 February 4, 2010 QuoteNow you sound like a whuffo media reporter. The 3 fatalities at Lodi were 2 on a CRW load that went very bad and one ff-canopy collision. I was not speaking of any fatalities at Lodi. I was speaking of fatalities attributed to unintentional jumper contact with horizontal stabilizers on climbing jump runs. Never assume.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #55 February 4, 2010 Quote I was speaking of fatalities attributed to unintentional jumper contact with horizontal stabilizers on climbing jump runs. Never assume. What 3 fatalities are you attributing to "unintentional jumper contact with horizontal stabilizers on climbing jump runs"? .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
