..when small bands are too big

[kingbunky 3]

...waddya do? i just got my new canopy and due to the much smaller lines, i switched from big bands to small bands on the dbag. i figured that would be good, but i discovered that the last 4 stows (below the cascades) the lines are very loose and look like they would dump in a heartbeat. i don't want to double stow them, are there any other alternatives?

"Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart."
MB4252 TDS699
killing threads since 2001

[MrBrant 0]

I have the same thing.


I used to double-wrap the last stows, but I found that be a contributing factor to linetwists. (it seemed that way anyway).

Now, I make sure the locking stows are nice and tight, and just leave the rest loose. Had good success with that - YMMV. (just make sure those locking stows are tight . breaking lines on opening isn't fun )

[bob.dino 1]

Double the bands on the d-bag attachment points, not on the lines.

Does that make sense?

[councilman24 37]

What bob's saying is wrap the rubberband around the d bag attachment tape twice, then through itself. The prussic knot in the attached site illustrates the concept. Don't worry about it looking good and only go around twice.

http://www.utas.edu.au/docs/climbing_club/TUCC/knots/prussic.html

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[DeNReN 0]

I have the same issue...7 cell and all....been doubling them...no problems yet(only 25 jumps on the new canopy) and have not heard any negitive comments from anyone at the DZ about it.

keeping the stows a consistant tension while not being too loose or tight seems to be popular...

[DeNReN 0]

I will try that...thanks Bob and Terry

[bch7773 0]

you can buy even smaller rubber bands then what you see at the DZ. Office supply store online usually has several different sizes of those types of rubber bands.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[justinb138 0]

Quote

I have the same issue...7 cell and all....been doubling them...no problems yet(only 25 jumps on the new canopy) and have not heard any negitive comments from anyone at the DZ about it.

keeping the stows a consistant tension while not being too loose or tight seems to be popular...

That's what I do, and I've had no issues with line twists at all. I don't double wrap the locking stows, and they're not loose, but not too tight.

[kingbunky 3]

i think i get that, but from those pictures it looks liek it would be fun to tie with a little rubber band! thanks for all the suggestions.

"Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart."
MB4252 TDS699
killing threads since 2001

[councilman24 37]

Use either a power tool or a pull up cord to thread things. A pull up cord would probably not damaged the rubber band as much but the power tool would give you the rigid rod and be easier. YMMV

Find a set of tube stow instructions. Follow the tighter tube stow portion.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[ldskydiver 0]

Purchase at set Silibands size 1 and install them on the the bag at the loose stows. These babies are great

[councilman24 37]

There are those in the industry who believe stronger stow band, either silibands, tube stows, the 8 stows from a few years agos are inappropriate for various reasons. One, not as easily broken if causing a deployment issue. Two, tube stows not gripping the lines as well with lower surface area contact. And other reasons.

For one opinon see http://www.jumpshack.com/default.asp?CategoryID=TECH&PageID=Rubberbands&SortBy=DATE_D

I haven't offered my opinion yet. On purpose. I relate what I have seen and what I use but stay out of this debate for the most part. I use rubber bands and expect them to break routinely.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Elisha 1]

Quote

There are those in the industry who believe stronger stow band, either silibands, tube stows, the 8 stows from a few years agos are inappropriate for various reasons. One, not as easily broken if causing a deployment issue. Two, tube stows not gripping the lines as well with lower surface area contact. And other reasons.

For one opinon see http://www.jumpshack.com/default.asp?CategoryID=TECH&PageID=Rubberbands&SortBy=DATE_D

I haven't offered my opinion yet. On purpose. I relate what I have seen and what I use but stay out of this debate for the most part. I use rubber bands and expect them to break routinely.

So, IYO, are my SkyBands a deathtrap/cutaway waiting to happen as well?

[Samurai136 0]

Quote

So, IYO, are my SkyBands a deathtrap/cutaway waiting to happen as well?

137 Jumps? Please report your experiences with skybands over your next several thousand jumps. We'll add your field research to the database.

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[councilman24 37]

Note, I did NOT offer my opinion. I told you what others think and told you what I choose to do. BTW 'deathtrap' and 'cutaway' are not synonomous. We will for the most part all have a cutaway. For the most part we won't die from them.
I don't have any direct experience with skybands. I do have several sets of a similar heavy duty product whose name escapes me. I've chosen not to use them.

PD has a document on rubber bands on their website. Please go read that too. There are other opinions around. Gather as much information as you can and make a decision. For the most part, (THIS IS OPINION) the advantages of anything other than rubber bands are durability and style. Preventing line dump better may or may not be a property of any particular stow device.

No, I'm not saying they are a deathtrap. I am saying there may be disadvantages along with perceived or real advantages.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[popsjumper 2]

I'm no rigger ...

From PD's website:

"…the stow must be held fairly tightly so
that they are only released in the proper order. To check your
stows on the ground, it should take a minimum of 8 pounds,
and ideally 12 pounds of force to unstow the lines pulling the
bag across a smooth surface by the bridle. (The emphasis
should be toward 12 pounds) Use a fish scale on the bridle to
check this. Larger, heavier canopies will require more force,
as does a canopy deployed at higher speeds. (This test is
important to know how well your stow bands will hold your
lines.) You can tighten your stows if they are too loose. If you
use Tube Stoes, look at the instructions that were included
with them. Follow the instructions labeled “For tighter Tube
Stoes”. Rubber bands can be tightened in the same way.
Replace Tube Stoes or rubber bands that appear worn. Do
not wait until they break! The line stows must have between 2
1/2 and 3 inches of line through each stow."

------------------------
So...
Small bands too loose?
a) double-wrap the band
Double-wrapped small bands too tight?
b) Use larger bands and double-wrap.

Note:
I was taught to NOT double-wrap locking stows.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[johnny1488 1]

Quote

ote:
I was taught to NOT double-wrap locking stows.
---

I was told by a very experienced factory test pilot to use big rubberbands and double wrap them all. I have over 1000 jumps this way and have never personally seen a problem. I have also packed over 15000 rigs this way and have not seen a problem.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[dmetz 0]

Anyone:

I use small bands and double-wrap all but the first two locking stows (as per rigger's suggestion). Obviously I don't have a problem with them being too loose, but could they be too tight? I fly a Sabre1 170 and it takes a good 1000 ft from pitch to saddle, and there's not too much snivel. But it seems like it takes a long time before I get pulled upright. Could that be attributed to the tight bands? (by the way, I have a brand new PC and I make sure to give it a good toss)

Thanks
Dan

_________________________________________

"If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?"

[councilman24 37]

Your pilot chute developes something like 120 lbs (rough est.) of force. Do you really think the rubber bands are holding up to that?

I can't say I've heard of a Sabre 1 taking that long to open. Mine takes more like 300 ft. Are you getting your PC into clean air? Or doing a wimpy toss and leaving it on your back?

Tight rubber bands have been blamed for a lot of problems but I don't think thats one of them.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[dmetz 0]

Quote

Your pilot chute developes something like 120 lbs (rough est.) of force. Do you really think the rubber bands are holding up to that?

No. It doesn't seem as though they would.

Quote

Are you getting your PC into clean air?

Quote

Yes.

Or doing a wimpy toss and leaving it on your back?

No. I know, because I've done that before and it took about 1500 ft to open; and that one was scarey enough for me to pay attention to my throw every time now.

Quote

I can't say I've heard of a Sabre 1 taking that long to open.

Mine takes about 1000ft every time. Really.

Quote

Tight rubber bands have been blamed for a lot of problems but I don't think thats one of them.

Thanks for your opinion; that's why I asked.

_________________________________________

"If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?"

[councilman24 37]

BTW I would still recommend tightening the rubber bands rather than double stowing them.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[dmetz 0]

I'm gonna try that next time...thanks.

_________________________________________

"If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?"

[councilman24 37]

One thing that can cause a Sabre or any shaped nose canopy to open slow is sticking cells into the center cell.

Some people when packing roll each side of the nose to the center and then tuck the rolled cells into the center cell. Because the top skin overhangs the nose this can trap the rolled cells and cause very slow openings. This is not recommended. If you think your doing this have a very experienced jumper, instructor or rigger show you what I'm talking about and what not to do.

If you are doing this and stop, hang on to your hat when you open the first time without doing it.

Actually, I doubt if your doing this if it's consistently taking a 1000' to open.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[NelKel 0]

Hay Dmetz, How often do you have to change broken rubber bands? Often?

Personaly I do not double stow any lines on my rig. I change worn bands before they break. My Pilot takes fairly long to inflate, but double stows will not realy add to a snivel. The position of the slider and the nose will more than likley determine a longer snivel.

Once, I knew this dude with a Velo. He would make up his locking stows ONLY. Then Figure 8 the rest of the lines in the tray like a base rig. He perfered the openings and stated he found to have less likley line twist on deployment. That the reason I don't double stow on my rig, line twist, However YMMV.

_________________________________________

Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

[councilman24 37]

Quote

Once, I knew this dude with a Velo. He would make up his locking stows ONLY. Then Figure 8 the rest of the lines in the tray like a base rig. He perfered the openings and stated he found to have less likley line twist on deployment. That the reason I don't double stow on my rig, line twist, However YMMV.

Aaaaah, youngsters. We stoped free stowing lines 20 plus years ago. Only leads to grief.

"everything old is new again"

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE