SABRE2 vs STILETTO vs VENGEANCE

[Portuguese77 0]

Hi,

I am buying (Finally) my own equipment. Will be getting a 150 but not sure which one to choose.

I'm taking 6 months to do a lot of jumps in the next year (over 700) and am interested in taking the first steps in swooping. Some people advised me to buy a sabre2 150, some a stiletto 150 some a vengeance 150 because its cross braced. I just dont know what to get and at what would be a good price for a second hand canopy with say... 300-400 jumps

I have 300 jumps so far and most of them were made with a Spinaker 175 (russian). The smallest one I ever jumped was a sabre2 150 in nill winds and had no problems with it.

Any advice?

[nbblood 0]

The Vengeance is not cross-braced. It is airlocked. I've jumped all these canopies. I'd recommend starting on the Sabre2. I just sold my Stiletto and kept my Sabre2 because I like it better. The Vengeance is a great canopy but often requires pilot attention. It is highly elliptical and kind of funky during opening.

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[riggerrob 643]

100 jumps under a Sabre 2-150 will teach you more than 50 jumps under a Vengance.
Oh!
Wait a minute!
You will not survive 500 jumps if you go straight to a Vengeance.
Don't repeat my mistake by down-sizing too quickly (220 to 150 in one step). I didn't hurt myself, but was so afraid of the canopy that I never got close to the edges of its envelope. Ergo, I never learned how to fly that Sbre 150 properly.

You just mentioned three different CLASSES of canopies: Sabre 2, Stiletto and Vengeance.

The Sabre 2 is a tame, slightly tapered (slightly elliptical) sport canopy designed for casual weekend jumpers and intermediate canopy pilots.

Stilettos are often described as "fully elliptical." The difference with Stilettos is that they can spin up into line twists so bad that the only solution is cutting away.

Finally, Vengeance is a "severely elliptical" canopy that WILL spin up if you do not consciously "fly" it all the way through opening.
Think of each - faster - class of canopy as down-sizing 20 square feet.
If you want to survive, try to only change one variable (i.e size of canopy or class of canopy) per jump. Then do a hundred jumps on the new canopy before trying any new variable.

In the long run, you might learn enough to jump a Vengeance, but it will take you 700 to 1,000 jumps reach that skill level.

[Portuguese77 0]

Great advice. Will def take this into consideration.

The only reason it seems I'm "Jumping" canopies quickly is because I will be making so many jumps in a short space of time, but point taken...to do the jumps I need to be alive!

Think then the Sabre 2 150 is the winner. Can explore it to the max and then change to higher (quicker) flights. What would be a good deal for a 300 - 400 jumps old Sabre 2 150?

[Praetorian 1]

Warning I am repeating advice and do not know this to be true first hand

I am told that for swooping you are better off learning on a Sabre2 than a stiletto, the stiletto has a very short recovery arch were the sabre2 is more like the swooping machines you will fly later. Stiletto will teach you to setup too low and depend on the quick recovery arch too much ...

AGAIN I don't currently have the skill to begin swooping, I just LISTEN a lot to the "real" flyers

Someone who knows PLEASE correct me if I've got this wrong

Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad
judgment.

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

Rob,

He asked about a Vengance; are you thinking Velo? While I have no experience with it, I thought (?) that the Vengance was rather tame.

Or maybe I'm the one who is totally wrong.

Jerry

[nbblood 0]

The Vengeance is not tame. It's not a Velo, but it is highly elliptical and performs as such. It is easy to get it in a diving spin if all is not right at opening.

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[bigway 4]

get a safire 2.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[bob.dino 1]

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Can explore it to the max and then change to higher (quicker) flights.

The best canopy pilots at my DZ have never done less than 500 jumps on each canopy they've owned. One of my mentors (hi Mike!), did 1000 jumps on his Sabre 150, then 600 on the next, then 1000 on the one after that.... etc etc. He's now off to Austria in a couple of months to represent Australia in the World Cup of Canopy Piloting.

Don't be in a rush to downsize - you can learn a hell of a lot on a Sabre2 150, knowledge that will stand you in good stead when you do downsize.

[NelKel 0]

Some people advised me to buy a sabre2 150, some a stiletto 150 some a vengeance 150 because its cross braced. <<<<<


R U asking for my opinion on a scale of 1-10?

Vengeance is airlocked not crossbraced.

I would have to say 8,9,5.

_________________________________________

Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

[Squeak 17]

Ask one of the better canopy pilots at your DZ to show you what a Sabre2 150 can do. Even after a few hundred jumps I doubt that you will be able to max out the canopy.
I 'like rob downsized WAY to much for my 1st kit (230-150) and simarly I dont fly anywhere near well enough to change canopies at present.(although when I have robs jump numbers I may be ready

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[DJL 235]

CONSIDER a Nitro or Nitron. They have everything the beginner swooper needs (In broad terms) and you could probably fly them through a 747's jetwash without collapsing.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[GrumpySmurf 0]

What they said - S2 - 150 Flown both the S2 150 and the V 150 loaded at about 1.5.
The V is like a high maintenance, disloyal supermodel - when the sex is good, the sex is amazing, but the rest of the time, it's looking to show you who is really in charge, and it could care less how much of a cost it is to you (both in terms of pocket book and life and limb).

The S2 is not nearly as disloyal, nor high maintenance - it will forgive your wandering eye, less than ideal body position and that not-so-origami perfect packing technique. It won't leave you in the cold sweat that the V will after a romp across the sky, mind you, but it is less likely to put you in the ICU as well (or at least owing your rigger alot of beer from chop after chop.)

Plus the off student status market eats up used S2s like a carnivore coming off a yoga retreat.

[jeiber 0]

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What they said - S2 - 150

~250 jumps on a Sabre2 190 (~1.4), ~10 jumps on a Stiletto 170 (~1.6), ~300 jumps under a Vengeance 150 (~1.8), it's my current canopy.

Your description is great! Let me edit if I may:

My Vengeance is like a bipolar supermodel. The only consistent mood is 'eratic'. She's sexy, she's moody, and she's the boss. Period.

Stiletto was like a cock tease. At first, she seemed wild, and would talk a big game, but then went home early.

Sabre2 was like the pretty girl you see in church. You think she's harmless, until you get her in bed, at which point she turns into a freak and totally blows your mind. Why tell anyone, few will believe you...

How will these women affect you? Experience her too young, and the bipolar supermodel will leave you bitter, broken hearted, and broke. She's earned her reputation... why do you think she's still single? Even most experienced guys don't want anything to do with her.

The cock tease will just waste your time. She just wants to have fun, but on your dime. No matter how hard you try, she just doesn't get into sex.

The girl next door is a lady on the street, but a freak in the bed. Every once in a while I see her again, The big guy she's with just gives me a smile and a wink. He knows...

Oh, and the story wouldn't be complete without mentioning my best friend, PDR 176. He was there for me at a moments notice when she (VN) decided to leave me on a 3.5 hop n pop... He always says, 'you guys fight all the time, is she really worth it?'.

I had an affair this weekend though, and it felt great!

Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[RMURRAY 1]

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Rob,

He asked about a Vengance; are you thinking Velo? While I have no experience with it, I thought (?) that the Vengance was rather tame.

Or maybe I'm the one who is totally wrong.

Jerry

the VENGEANCE was one of the few mistakes PD has made. I'd go Sabre2 - easy to sell when you are done with it - then move on to Icarus.

rm

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

Hi GrumpySmurf,

Bravo!!!! If all gear evaluations were this easy to understand (and pay attention to) people would not make mistakes in buying gear.

Jerry

[Cloudi 0]

Perfect!

Kim
Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

[NelKel 0]

Pilot

_________________________________________

Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

[phoenixlpr 0]

LOL

Thats interesting, and you are still jumping Vengeance.

[GQ_jumper 4]

Pilot

Quote

ditto

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

• Quote

[jeiber 0]

Haven't we all dated 'that girl'?! Like I said, I'm selling my VN150 - brand new 5/50 line set (helped a little).

I'm going after the girl next door's wild little sister!

Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!