Anyone want to help defend the (relative) safety of our sport?

[lkolkin 0]

I recently posted a link on here to a friend of mine who writes a blog in a magazine.

He started skydiving only weeks ago and like most of us, he is hooked. Someone commented on his blog (for everyone to see) with the user name SKYDIVERS DIE about their personal experience with burying 12 skydivers in 9 years. His comment "I quit skydiving after 820 jumps, 9 years and 12 funerals. The one thing they lie to you about is how safe it is. I got sick of burying my friends. Got sick of hearing "blue skies black death" because it was true."

My friend is naturally concerned about the gentleman's response, as he described to me "I am having a mini heart attack". I responded to this guy's comment, but if anyone else wants to help out, please, please, please!!!!

Here is the link (I appologize in advance cause I have no idea how to make it actually a link):
http://www.maisonneuve.org/blog/index.php?itemid=349

Many thanks!

[Girlfalldown 0]

clicky

--------------

(Do not, I repeat DO NOT, take my posts seriously.)

[PhreeZone 20]

Guess what? Its NOT SAFE!!!

I'm betting on at least 1 if not up to 3 fatalities next week at WFFC.

The number is not 20, its closer to 30 per year. Out of 32000 USPA members thats 1/1000 people per year die jumping. Figure in those people that die in the plane crashes that happen every so many years... the figures add up expecially when they are your friends.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Remster 30]

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The one thing they lie to you about is how safe it is

If Mr DIE was told that, then he was in deed lied to.

12 jumpers in 9 years? Its a lot, but its possible depending where you jump and if you do the circuit and end up sociallizing with a lot of people.

Remster

[lkolkin 0]

Well, that's why I said relative safety. I never said it was fool proof but I don't think its an unsafe sport either.

[Nightingale 0]

there's something inherently dangerous about jumping out of a plane.

however, there's lots of things we can do, as individuals, to be a little safer... stuff like:

appropriate wingloadings
helmets
canopy school
awareness of altitude and what's going on around us
aad
gear checks
practicing emergency procedures

[lawrocket 3]

Ask how many skydivers have a hunk of metal in them. Big injuries are seemingly the norm. Broken bones, torn ligaments, paralysis, etc.

Not a safe sport. The sport is concerned with safety, but is not safe.

Winsor said it best - "What part of hurling yourself bodily at the earth from two miles up strikes you as safe?"

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lkolkin 0]

I completely agree with you hands down. I wrote a lengthy comment on his comment basically putting more words behind what you wrote. I am not trying to give my friend the false impression that it is safe and he can jump without caution, or that even if he jumps with all the caution in the world that he will be safe. I am not that naive, but I do have to believe (particularly as a single mother) that my risks are rather minimal if I educate myself on equipment, the particulars of the DZ, malfunctions (etc), do regular gear checks on and off the plane, jump with weight, skill, and discipline appropriate gear, jump on skydives I am skilled enough to jump on, consiously work on my air awareness skills, and fly my canopy conservatively, that my risk in minimal.

[Push 0]

Quote

The one thing they lie to you about is how safe it is.

Who are "they"? Especially after almost 900 jumps and 9 years.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[AndyMan 7]

I was struck by one of your comments. In the blog, you (i think it was you) said that you've lost more friends to drunken driving accidents than skydiving ones.

I think you must have been very lucky at the DZ's you frequent, or you had a large number of alcoholic friends.

I knew 3 people who died last year, one of them was a good friend. I've never lost anyone to a traffic accident. I simply can not imagine the validity of such a comparison.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Ron 10]

Its the only sport I can think of if you do nothing after you start...you die.

You can do everything right and still die.

Its not safe and never will be.

9 years and 12 deaths seems like a lot...But one plane crash can do that (yes, not a skydiving death, but still part of the sport.)

A certain DZ..not going to mention names since it would start a shit storm...Has had 15 since 1993..so it CAN happen.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[PhreeZone 20]

Between 1995- Present

Eloy has had 14
Skydive Chicago has had 13
Perris has had 9

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[lkolkin 0]

Yes, it was me who commented first on his site(Mama Lucia). As far as being lucky at the DZs I've been to, that could be. However, I used to call Perris my home DZ and even there, where there are maybe a thousand of skydives made per week, I never knew anyone who died (nor did they have any deaths there when I was jumping there).

I did take a few years off from the sport when I got pregnant with my son, and there was at least one VERY loved person who died in our community, however it wasn't from a skydiving accident.

All that being said, I have seen some gnarly things. Heck, I was jumping with Dead Mike the jump that made him famous for being Dead Mike (if you're not familiar with who he is, he has a website deadmike.com if you're interested). I was right there, I saw it all first hand from maybe 100 feet above him.

As far as having alcholic friends, maybe I do (I did start partying at a young age), but I have buried at least 3 people in drinking and driving (or driving under the influence of narcotics).

So anyway, I'm not trying to say that the sport is 100% safe, don't get me wrong. I do want my friend to be aware that there are risks and with those risks one must accept that the possbility of death is out there, but I also think that Skydivers Die comment was written in a morbid fashion and that burying 12 friends in 9 years is not necessarily the norm.

Peace

[happythoughts 0]

There's worse things than dying. That's what I worry about.

People want to equate low death numbers with relative safety. A lot of people die bowling.

The rate of devasting injuries bothers me more.

[AndyMan 7]

It may be morbid, but I've met a handful of ex-skydivers who have a very similar attitude. Especially after Roger Nelsons death last year, some people found the risks simply too high for their liking.

It may be morbid, but it certainly isn't uncommon among ex-jumpers.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

Quote

Guess what? Its NOT SAFE!!!

Nor is:

-Sushi
-Driving a car
-Walking
-Swimming
-Boating
-Red Meat
-Raw vegetables
-90% of the world's water
-Sunlight
-Darkness
-Alcohol
-Sugar
-Pets
-Oysters
-Fish
-Electricity
-Pharmaceuticals
-Gasoline

But I will still indulge...

[wildblue 7]

Quote

However, I used to call Perris my home DZ and even there, where there are maybe a thousand of skydives made per week, I never knew anyone who died (nor did they have any deaths there when I was jumping there).

It was only 12 years ago that Perris had a terrible crash - that took the lives of 16 friends and family members, who happened to be world-class skydivers. So yeah, you've been pretty lucky.

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

Its the only sport I can think of if you do nothing after you start...you die.

BASE jumping? Okay the two are somewhat related ...

Quote

Its not safe and never will be.

People are fooling themselves if they think skydiving is safe.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Douva 0]

Quote

I recently posted a link on here to a friend of mine who writes a blog in a magazine.

He started skydiving only weeks ago and like most of us, he is hooked. Someone commented on his blog (for everyone to see) with the user name SKYDIVERS DIE about their personal experience with burying 12 skydivers in 9 years. His comment "I quit skydiving after 820 jumps, 9 years and 12 funerals. The one thing they lie to you about is how safe it is. I got sick of burying my friends. Got sick of hearing "blue skies black death" because it was true."

My friend is naturally concerned about the gentleman's response, as he described to me "I am having a mini heart attack". I responded to this guy's comment, but if anyone else wants to help out, please, please, please!!!!

Here is the link (I appologize in advance cause I have no idea how to make it actually a link):
http://www.maisonneuve.org/blog/index.php?itemid=349

Many thanks!

820 jumps / 9 years = <92 jumps/year

That leads me to believe this guy is probably an old-timer who jumped prior to a lot of the modern safety advancements. Loosing a friend every 1 1/3 year is a little extreme (he doesn't mention if any plane crashes were involved), but if he was jumping in the days prior to AAD's and other safety advancements, it's possible. They don't call these sports "extreme" for nothing.

--Douva

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Ron 10]

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In Reply To
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Its the only sport I can think of if you do nothing after you start...you die.

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BASE jumping? Okay the two are somewhat related ...

I consider BASE a subsect of skydiving. I find it stupid that the USPA does not.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[wmw999 2,439]

Nope, skydiving isn't safe. But people have have a demonstrable impact on their relative safety (within the bounds of "not safe") by their actions and decisions.

That control makes them feel safe, because they have reduced so many risks. Of course, there are risks they can't or don't reduce, and they still often carry deadly consequences.

It's not safe. Neither is driving. Neither is eating. But skydiving wouldn't be as much fun if it were as safe as eating, would it?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Ron 10]

Quote

820 jumps / 9 years = <92 jumps/year

That leads me to believe this guy is probably an old-timer who jumped prior to a lot of the modern safety advancements. Loosing a friend every 1 1/3 year is a little extreme (he doesn't mention if any plane crashes were involved), but if he was jumping in the days prior to AAD's and other safety advancements, it's possible. They don't call these sports "extreme" for nothing.

625/5= 125 a year.

125-92= 33

Are you an old timer?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

Quote

Nope, skydiving isn't safe. But people have have a demonstrable impact on their relative safety (within the bounds of "not safe") by their actions and decisions.

Did you mean it that way? Thats funny.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[wmw999 2,439]

Quote

Did you mean it that way? Thats funny

Ummm -- nope. Didn't even occur to me

"I'm sorry sir, your daughter was outed as a careless word user because she was stupid"

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[beowulf 1]

I think skydivers often get complacent and don't really think about the actual risks involved or don't even consider them as risks. I know that I have to watch myself for this. Complacency kills!

The comments like 'skydiving is safer then driving' lead me to believe that the person is complacent and trying to brush off the actual risk involved in skydiving.