happythoughts 0 #101 August 6, 2004 I was only referring to one factor. Having a properly functioning main and then driving it into the ground. There are other errors, but that is the most popular. There again, we are just talking fatalities. If there were zero fatalities, but 100 people with broken femurs, it would not be safe. For me, safety is not determined by the number of deaths. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #102 August 6, 2004 QuoteI was only referring to one factor. Having a properly functioning main and then driving it into the ground. There are other errors, but that is the most popular. . Hey, this is a golfing thread. If you want to digress to other topics, start your own thread. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lkolkin 0 #103 August 6, 2004 QuoteThe primary theme of the thread was "How do I reply to people about how dangerous skydiving is?" That was exactly why I started this thread... you are definitely right, there are things far worse (debatable to some people, I'm sure) than dying. I've concluded from this long thread that I may just be in the minority with how safe I feel in the sport. Its hard for me to really understand that if people think the sport is SO dangerous and that we're playing russian roulette with our lives (or risk becoming parapalegic) every time we jump out of the plane, why most of us still jump. Are the 60 seconds really worth it if its just the luck of the draw? I know some people will say yes, but for all of us parents, devoted husbands and wives, etc and others who have people depending on them I have to believe that it is relatively safe. Let me reiterate that I understand the risks and truly believe they are viable and real risks on EVERY JUMP. If I didn't, I wouldn't do multiple gear checks, stay current on my safety reviews, etc, etc. I don't feel complacent and I am constantly aware (and reminded) of the risks involved in this sport. I do think that with all the proper checks and balances and education (etc, etc) that I can count on walking away after a jump. I thank all of you for your thoughts and input. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScubaSteve 0 #104 August 6, 2004 ____In Reply to_________- As long as you're wearing your extreme bass fishing helmet _____________________________________________ Is that helmet for real?? I like the disclaimer: PLEASE NOTE: This helmet is modified for Competition Bass Fishing and is not suitable for being used as a skydiving helmet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eeneR 3 #105 August 6, 2004 QuoteAs long as you're wearing your extreme bass fishing helmet Funny how much that helmet looks like an Oxygen She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway." eeneR TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #106 August 6, 2004 It should be noted that that's the same company that makes the Invertigo-x freefly helmet, and Jacket-X d-boxes. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #107 August 6, 2004 It's not as safe as we'd like it to be, nor is it as dangerous as the public thinks. Personally, I ran up a pretty long list of people I've known who died jumping, all in the old days, and it contributed to my burnout and leaving the sport in 1980. It can get to be too much for some people. I have noticed that after a fatality, it's not unusual for at least one person to quit. Most of us will try to catch the next plane going up, but it's a quiet ride full of very thoughtful people. Having come back after so many years away, I find skydiving has re-energized me. I feel safest the moment I leave the plane. What was it Tanya Garcia-O'Brien said, she feels safe with all that air around her to prtect her from being hurt. But it's not safe. It's a reward, a very beautiful reward for those who want it badly enough to assume thhe risk that goes with it. If we pay attention to safety, wear helmets, choose an intelligent sized canopy for our skill level, and don't flout the laws of phyics (which are STRICTLY enforced), we can bank the odds in our favor. But the risk is there, and frankly it's a part of the attraction, that little "uh-oh" that tugs at your gut when the door is opened for jump run. The cost-benefit analysis of risk vs. reward is a totally personal thing. Everyone has to make their own decision and respect the decisions that others make. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflybella 0 #108 August 6, 2004 Can I just tell you that my Dad is competition bass fisherman and recently got a nice from deal Bonehead on a full-face!!!! Heath hooked him up after my dad hung out at the dz one weekend and saw his. Funny, My dad has always been trying to tell me how much skydiving is like bass fishing... Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
malboy 0 #109 August 6, 2004 to be honest, i think: who the hell cares if its safe, or perceved as safe, or whatever! if you want to skydive, skydive, if you dont then bloody dont! i personally do, despite the risks, as i percieve the gains more than equal the risks. this is my decision no one is going to make you skydive if you dont want to [except maybe the army] so quit whinin about safety, its as safe or as dangerous as you want to make it, after the obvious fact that your jumpin out of plane. and if you cant handle or arent happy with the risks, then the doors over there, goodbye...www.ewancowie.com www.facebook.com/ewancowiephotography Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 2 #110 August 6, 2004 QuoteThe cost-benefit analysis of risk vs. reward is a totally personal thing. Everyone has to make their own decision and respect the decisions that others make. That sums it up for me. I am more then capable of Flying the 190 the DZO suggested I buy but the risk vs. reward was to high for me at my age. When I buy, it will be more along the lines of a 210-230 but most likely a 230. I don't FreeFly (often) I bought a Full Face because I concentrate on RW and have been kicked in the Chin more then once wearing my protect. I have an Audible, I practice my EP's I LISTEN to those that KNOW and apply what they tell me. If I burn in I hope it will be a total and my friends will be able to raise a Glass and know that God just decided it was my time to come home instead of saying DAMNIT JOHN WHY THE FUCK DID YOU GO AND DO THAT! I have weighed the risk and I accept them. BSBD MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #111 August 7, 2004 QuoteQuoteEvery year, it seems that half of the people who die every year were not doing everything right. Quote My impression is that it's more like 9/10 or so.. is that just me? Well, I guess it depends on what you call a mistake.. using to much time to fight a spinning mal and not have sufficient time to make the reserve inflate is a mistake. You're the experienced one, I'm not. any opinions? I'm not experience within this sport yet, but what the hell. There are mistakes you make going in, like radical downsizing. And then there are mistakes like not dealing with a spinning mal fast enough. It's relatively easy to avoid the first type, less so for the second type. It's pretty hard to practice with real malfunctions, most of us got trained looking at pictures in a harness room. No spinning Gs or trapped arms. This is a sport where a single mistake can kill you. Often it is still a chain, as more typical with scuba, but it doesn't have to be. And that's where the inherent danger lies. You don't even have to make a single mistake for bad luck to strike you, though this is true of life itself. Sitting on the couch is safer. Driving is safer (don't even try). But certainly not as much fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites captain1 0 #112 August 7, 2004 Anyone who thinks this sport is safe is fooling themselves. Just read the disclaimer on your rig or canopy. There are so many things that can go wrong and so many different possibilities of bad situations that can happen to you. It is not a sport for the weak hearted or the bold "no guts no glory" type mentalities. However, it can be as safe as you make it. This is a sport where you are responsible for your own actions. Once you leap out the door there will be nobody there to hold your hand if you have a problem. You have to fix it. Never become complacent or sloppy. Always strive to learn and chances are you will enjoy many years of skydiving and not become another statistic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #113 August 7, 2004 QuoteAnyone who thinks this sport is safe is fooling themselves. Just read the disclaimer on your rig or canopy. There are so many things that can go wrong and so many different possibilities of bad situations that can happen to you. It is not a sport for the weak hearted or the bold "no guts no glory" type mentalities. However, it can be as safe as you make it. This is a sport where you are responsible for your own actions. Once you leap out the door there will be nobody there to hold your hand if you have a problem. You have to fix it. Never become complacent or sloppy. Always strive to learn and chances are you will enjoy many years of skydiving and not become another statistic. No Time Outs either. Once you step out there is no going back. That is why the saying 'Rather be on the ground wishing I were in the air then in the air wishing I was on the ground' is relevant. Sooner or later the more you jump you will wish you were on the ground instead of in the air. Mistakes happen no matter how meticulous you are. It's how you react to a bad situation that will keep you alive. Sometimes that isn't enough. Shit happens. I don't want to die any more then the next person. I just accept my mortality and refuse to let it interfere with my enjoyment of life. To me the risk is worth the rewards. Nothing good comes with out risk of some kind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites captain1 0 #114 August 7, 2004 What do you mean by,"Sooner or later the more you jump you will wish you were on the ground instead of in the air." A very experienced jumper told me once that if you are in this sport with the assumption that it will probably or eventually kill you, you should not be in this sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lindsey 0 #115 August 7, 2004 I recall one moment in particular, on a board at the end of a long day, and I was tired. I got into a nasty spin and thought for a minute that I was just too tired to deal with it. But there was no choice but to deal with it. I wished then that I was on the ground, but I never thought that that jump would kill me. I knew, however, that I would have to dig a little deeper that day. Maybe those are the kinds of things that he means.... linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #116 August 7, 2004 I was meaning that there will come a jump that a mistake will be made and things will get really tight. It is how you deal with those tough situations that will decide your fate. I don't think I will die skydiving. At least I don't plan on that. I plan on being an old SOB one day. Spoiling grand kids hopefully. Mistakes will happen. The only thing that can be done is to try to minimize the amount and severity of the mistakes. That is true in everything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites captain1 0 #117 August 7, 2004 I have met the ground and it is not friendly at 40mph!! However, I am still skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites captain1 0 #118 August 7, 2004 I concur, I apologize for misunderstanding your reply. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #119 August 7, 2004 No problem. I just type faster then I could proof read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #120 August 7, 2004 QuoteWhat do you mean by,"Sooner or later the more you jump you will wish you were on the ground instead of in the air." it doesnt always have to do with mistakes either... I've hit turbulance at 1500 that made me wish I wasnt in the air right then, right there, landed nicely with only a good scare, but it was enough to sit me down for the day....... the wrong combination of air in the right place can be a very ugly thing for you no matter how well you've think you've covered the possiblities..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites captain1 0 #121 August 7, 2004 THERMALS!!! Killed many a good swoopers. Difference between temperatures on the ground like pavemnet meeting grass. Water meeting ground. Trees meeting wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflybella 0 #122 August 8, 2004 I met Jarret yesterday! (You know, the guy who wrote the article that started this thread?!) He's going to be just fine. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tbrown 26 #123 August 8, 2004 QuoteTHERMALS!!! Killed many a good swoopers. Difference between temperatures on the ground like pavemnet meeting grass. Water meeting ground. Trees meeting wind. It's funny how we've invented new ways to kill ourselves just as we've mostly solved the old (boring) ways. There really aren't so many of us going splat like a bug on a windshield anymore since the Cypres and RSL's are widely used. Getting something to open isn't really the big problemo anymore, it's what to do with it once it's opened. And in the wrong hands, some of these canopies are certifiable suicide machines. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites d_squared431 0 #124 August 8, 2004 I just started with this sport and I know how dangerous it is and from what I have read in the forums so does everyone else. I don't know anyone who has died from skydiving because I haven't been in this sport long. I do know in the 12 plus years I have been snowboarding I have lost several friends to injuries and avalanches. It doesn't matter what sport you decide to participate in they all have risks involved, some more then others. Quote To live life and enjoy it comes risks. Not taking risk is not living life TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1 I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimbarry 0 #125 August 8, 2004 Quoteno one is going to make you skydive if you dont want to [except maybe the army] even then, it's volunteer. even after volunteering to join the military, one must volunteer again for airborne. at least in the US. 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captain1 0 #112 August 7, 2004 Anyone who thinks this sport is safe is fooling themselves. Just read the disclaimer on your rig or canopy. There are so many things that can go wrong and so many different possibilities of bad situations that can happen to you. It is not a sport for the weak hearted or the bold "no guts no glory" type mentalities. However, it can be as safe as you make it. This is a sport where you are responsible for your own actions. Once you leap out the door there will be nobody there to hold your hand if you have a problem. You have to fix it. Never become complacent or sloppy. Always strive to learn and chances are you will enjoy many years of skydiving and not become another statistic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #113 August 7, 2004 QuoteAnyone who thinks this sport is safe is fooling themselves. Just read the disclaimer on your rig or canopy. There are so many things that can go wrong and so many different possibilities of bad situations that can happen to you. It is not a sport for the weak hearted or the bold "no guts no glory" type mentalities. However, it can be as safe as you make it. This is a sport where you are responsible for your own actions. Once you leap out the door there will be nobody there to hold your hand if you have a problem. You have to fix it. Never become complacent or sloppy. Always strive to learn and chances are you will enjoy many years of skydiving and not become another statistic. No Time Outs either. Once you step out there is no going back. That is why the saying 'Rather be on the ground wishing I were in the air then in the air wishing I was on the ground' is relevant. Sooner or later the more you jump you will wish you were on the ground instead of in the air. Mistakes happen no matter how meticulous you are. It's how you react to a bad situation that will keep you alive. Sometimes that isn't enough. Shit happens. I don't want to die any more then the next person. I just accept my mortality and refuse to let it interfere with my enjoyment of life. To me the risk is worth the rewards. Nothing good comes with out risk of some kind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain1 0 #114 August 7, 2004 What do you mean by,"Sooner or later the more you jump you will wish you were on the ground instead of in the air." A very experienced jumper told me once that if you are in this sport with the assumption that it will probably or eventually kill you, you should not be in this sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #115 August 7, 2004 I recall one moment in particular, on a board at the end of a long day, and I was tired. I got into a nasty spin and thought for a minute that I was just too tired to deal with it. But there was no choice but to deal with it. I wished then that I was on the ground, but I never thought that that jump would kill me. I knew, however, that I would have to dig a little deeper that day. Maybe those are the kinds of things that he means.... linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #116 August 7, 2004 I was meaning that there will come a jump that a mistake will be made and things will get really tight. It is how you deal with those tough situations that will decide your fate. I don't think I will die skydiving. At least I don't plan on that. I plan on being an old SOB one day. Spoiling grand kids hopefully. Mistakes will happen. The only thing that can be done is to try to minimize the amount and severity of the mistakes. That is true in everything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain1 0 #117 August 7, 2004 I have met the ground and it is not friendly at 40mph!! However, I am still skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain1 0 #118 August 7, 2004 I concur, I apologize for misunderstanding your reply. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #119 August 7, 2004 No problem. I just type faster then I could proof read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #120 August 7, 2004 QuoteWhat do you mean by,"Sooner or later the more you jump you will wish you were on the ground instead of in the air." it doesnt always have to do with mistakes either... I've hit turbulance at 1500 that made me wish I wasnt in the air right then, right there, landed nicely with only a good scare, but it was enough to sit me down for the day....... the wrong combination of air in the right place can be a very ugly thing for you no matter how well you've think you've covered the possiblities..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain1 0 #121 August 7, 2004 THERMALS!!! Killed many a good swoopers. Difference between temperatures on the ground like pavemnet meeting grass. Water meeting ground. Trees meeting wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflybella 0 #122 August 8, 2004 I met Jarret yesterday! (You know, the guy who wrote the article that started this thread?!) He's going to be just fine. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #123 August 8, 2004 QuoteTHERMALS!!! Killed many a good swoopers. Difference between temperatures on the ground like pavemnet meeting grass. Water meeting ground. Trees meeting wind. It's funny how we've invented new ways to kill ourselves just as we've mostly solved the old (boring) ways. There really aren't so many of us going splat like a bug on a windshield anymore since the Cypres and RSL's are widely used. Getting something to open isn't really the big problemo anymore, it's what to do with it once it's opened. And in the wrong hands, some of these canopies are certifiable suicide machines. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d_squared431 0 #124 August 8, 2004 I just started with this sport and I know how dangerous it is and from what I have read in the forums so does everyone else. I don't know anyone who has died from skydiving because I haven't been in this sport long. I do know in the 12 plus years I have been snowboarding I have lost several friends to injuries and avalanches. It doesn't matter what sport you decide to participate in they all have risks involved, some more then others. Quote To live life and enjoy it comes risks. Not taking risk is not living life TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1 I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbarry 0 #125 August 8, 2004 Quoteno one is going to make you skydive if you dont want to [except maybe the army] even then, it's volunteer. even after volunteering to join the military, one must volunteer again for airborne. at least in the US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
