WTF is going on with the USPA?

[turtlespeed 220]

The OP of the parody received a threatening message from an USPA attorney.

The thread was deleted or I would link to it.

I would ask the mods to reinstate the thread - and perhaps lock it . . . but I don't know how often that actually happens.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[NWFlyer 2]

What was the topic of the parody?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[MakeItHappen 15]

Quote

Stand up, make your point ... vague "blah blah blah snip" isn't helping.

oh, how I wish I could do that.

see avatar.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[stratostar 5]

You just haven't been a member long enough to see how or know the "good old boy" network. And yes the current skyscam issue is worth being pissed about due to the conflict of interest on Doc Lee from TX. Then we have the midwest RD who sits on the safety and training com. taking a child on a TDM without taking the time to file the waver for age and this is the same guy who runs around the country as a IE and CD telling everyone else to follow the rules he sees fit to bust.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[marks 0]

Quote

Quote

Stand up, make your point ... vague "blah blah blah snip" isn't helping.

oh, how I wish I could do that.

see avatar.

.

can you at least say why you can't say anything?

[stratostar 5]

She is a sitting BOD member!

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Squeak 17]

Send all the info to me I'll post it, I'm just a little bit out of their jurisdiction

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[marks 0]

Quote

She is a sitting BOD member!

I still don't see why she can't say anything...

is the "gag" an "order"?

[johndh1 0]

Quote

oh, how I wish I could do that.

see avatar.

.

That's Hot.

Roll Tide Roll

[Krip 2]

Quote

She is a sitting BOD member!

And she was wasn't even on the origional offical ballet. They were elected as a write in, by and for the USPA membership.

R.I.P.

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

You just haven't been a member long enough to see how or know the "good old boy" network. And yes the current skyscam issue is worth being pissed about due to the conflict of interest on Doc Lee from TX. Then we have the midwest RD who sits on the safety and training com. taking a child on a TDM without taking the time to file the waver for age and this is the same guy who runs around the country as a IE and CD telling everyone else to follow the rules he sees fit to bust.

Thank you for providing examples. I am more than willing to get involved. Do a search on my name and USPA and I've clearly had a lot to say on the topic. I'm interested. I'm trying to learn. I've thought about running for the BOD - part of me wonders if someone who's been in the sport for 3 years could be taken seriously - and part of me thinks "fuck, if this board needs fresh blood, mine's about as fresh as it comes."

So I don't appreciate the "oh, you just don't get it, newbie" response from you, because frankly, I'm actually TRYING to get it, but a lot of the posts in this thread aren't really making a clear case for WHAT we're supposed to "get."

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[akarunway 1]

Quote

That would require two things 1) people to run and 2) people to vote. Most fun jumpers are all talk when it comes to both of those things.

And vague posts like this one aren't helping me (or any other members) to understand precisely why we're all supposed to hate the USPA right now. Obviously, the Skyride decision is worthy of getting pissed off about (but then again, last I checked, there has been NO official announcement of any decision by the USPA, just a lot of rumors floating around), but turtle and others are alluding to something else that's obviously not clear to those of us who haven't followed every thread or been in the loop on who's threatening who... plus other posts that allude to the same issue but don't come out and say anything.

Stand up, make your point ... vague "blah blah blah corruption blah blah blah threats" isn't helping.

My two cents. They are all about money. I used to love reading parachutist.(10 yrs ago) It sucks now. I did AFF 10 yrs. 7 jumps. Passed everyone. I did have some of the best instructors out there tho. 1000 dollars. Now it's what 25 jumps a few thousand? Mandatory coached jumps. Kiss my ass. All about safety my ass.. $$$$$. I quit jumping.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[RhondaLea 4]

Quote

So I don't appreciate the "oh, you just don't get it, newbie" response from you, because frankly, I'm actually TRYING to get it, but a lot of the posts in this thread aren't really making a clear case for WHAT we're supposed to "get."

I don't think he meant it the way that you took it.

People are reluctant to talk about this stuff because when they do, they take shit in real life.

Been there, done that.

I suggested turtlespeed google for references to USPA. Now I suggest you do it too. There are plenty of old examples, and the bottom line is that nothing about the pattern of USPA's behavior has changed. It's still as self-serving as it ever was.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[turtlespeed 220]

Quote

Quote

So I don't appreciate the "oh, you just don't get it, newbie" response from you, because frankly, I'm actually TRYING to get it, but a lot of the posts in this thread aren't really making a clear case for WHAT we're supposed to "get."

I don't think he meant it the way that you took it.

People are reluctant to talk about this stuff because when they do, they take shit in real life.

Been there, done that.

I suggested turtlespeed google for references to USPA. Now I suggest you do it too. There are plenty of old examples, and the bottom line is that nothing about the pattern of USPA's behavior has changed. It's still as self-serving as it ever was.

rl

That is a lot of info to go over - I am going through it though - I had read quite a bit and that all lead ultimately to this post. Well, that and the message from the atty. Who do they think they are? It's not like we are union organizers being . . . well it does kind of seem that way, now doesn't it? Hmmmm

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[stitch 0]

If you really have a problem with it, you can just move to Twin Falls.

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[turtlespeed 220]

Quote

If you really have a problem with it, you can just move to Twin Falls.

Maybe we can start a BASERide website there.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[livendive 8]

Quote

Thank you for providing examples. I am more than willing to get involved. Do a search on my name and USPA and I've clearly had a lot to say on the topic. I'm interested. I'm trying to learn. I've thought about running for the BOD - part of me wonders if someone who's been in the sport for 3 years could be taken seriously - and part of me thinks "fuck, if this board needs fresh blood, mine's about as fresh as it comes."

I've been advocating for fresh, jumper-oriented blood for years, but it hasn't seemed to help. I think USPA's problems are rooted in the same philosphy that started the group membership program (a program I'm not particularly fond of). I think USPA's focus should be industry standards for provision of student training, competition, and demos, and that's about it. When they added in the money-making components, they lost track of their purpose to the point that rating courses seem to be considered profit-sources more than anything.

I think someone without a lot of experience in skydiving could do ok on the BOD, especially if she's smart , but it's tough to convince everyone who doesn't know you that you would be a good BOD member. I've tried to push one pure fun-jumper through as a write-in before...he got some votes, but nowhere near as many as our incumbent RD. I've considered running myself a few times, but now I might be perceived as having the same conflict of interest I accuse others of having. Mike Mullins seems to do fine in my book, and I think I could similarly separate my efforts, but I doubt I could convince those who don't know me of it.

Did the parody we're talking about involve pet shelters?

Edited for grammar

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[ryoder 1,590]

Am I the only one still in shock to see a serious post from Turtlespeed?

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Quote

Stand up, make your point ... vague "blah blah blah snip" isn't helping.

oh, how I wish I could do that.

see avatar.

.

So your're not banned from here? Just a gag order from here w/ a threat of ban or a gag order from USPAs lawyers judge in pocket?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[turtlespeed 220]

Quote

Am I the only one still in shock to see a serious post from Turtlespeed?

Dave: yes . . . it did.

Ryoder: It happens . . . Not very often, but it happens.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Quote

Thank you for providing examples. I am more than willing to get involved. Do a search on my name and USPA and I've clearly had a lot to say on the topic. I'm interested. I'm trying to learn. I've thought about running for the BOD - part of me wonders if someone who's been in the sport for 3 years could be taken seriously - and part of me thinks "fuck, if this board needs fresh blood, mine's about as fresh as it comes."

I've been advocating for fresh, jumper-oriented blood for years, but it hasn't seemed to help. I think USPA's problem are rooted in the same philosphy that started the group membership program (a program I'm not particularly fond of). I think USPA's focus should be provision of industry standards for provision of student training, competition, and demos, and that's about it. When they added in the money-making components, they lost track of their purpose to the point that rating courses are seem to be considered profit-sources more than anything.

I think someone without a lot of experience in skydiving could do ok on the BOD, especially if she's smart , but it's tough to convince everyone who doesn't know you that you would be a good BOD member. I've tried to push one pure fun-jumper through as a write-in before...he got some votes, but nowhere near as many as our incumbent RD. I've considered running myself a few times, but now I might be perceived as having the same conflict of interest I accuse others of having. Mike Mullins seems to do fine in my book, and I think I could similarly separate my efforts, but I doubt I could convince those who don't know me of it.

Did the parody we're talking about involve pet shelters?

Blues,
Dave

That's my guess. That's came to mind when I read it.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[billvon 2,991]

> Have they become corrupt?

Most skydivers could care less. That's why USPA seems to be drifting away from representing skydivers.

The most recent example of this that I saw was at the SFO USPA board meeting. Our group was proposing the addition of a new rule that required separation of landing patterns. A LOT of people spent hours typing away at their computer condemning this, saying things like

You're not even a HP canopy pilot
"What is wrong with you guys? . . . maybe you should focus on your own jumping instead!"
"I do not support this BSR proposal."

And yet after all those hundreds of strongly worded posts, and thousands of words (and half a dozen posts asking people to show up at the meeting to talk about it) not a single one of those objectors showed up to the USPA meeting. And thus the only voice there was ours.

Who does show up? Among others, DZO's who want to push their businesses, get a Nationals at their DZ, and see regulations that are amenable to them. That's who USPA hears from.

Concerned about the direction USPA is going? Call your representative. Show up at meetings. Call headquarters and talk to whoever's available. Find out what they're doing, decide if you like it, and then tell them if you do or not.

Don't care? That's fine. Don't show up to meetings; don't bother calling anyone, asking questions or giving your opinion. Just don't complain when USPA doesn't seem to be representing you.

[billvon 2,991]

>I would ask the mods to reinstate the thread . . .

The thread is now "headless" - the guts of the first post was removed by the original poster. It would make no sense to reinstate it.

Jan, if you want to repost your parody, feel free. PM me if you need the deleted material - I can probably recover it from my browser's cache.

[stratostar 5]

Quote

So I don't appreciate the "oh, you just don't get it, newbie" response from you, because frankly, I'm actually TRYING to get it, but a lot of the posts in this thread aren't really making a clear case for WHAT we're supposed to "get."

I'm sorry you took it that way, let me explain, what I mean is you have not been around long enough to know about some of the past actions and been able to see first hand the "good old boy" network at play, lucky you or you would be really disgusted. I didn't mean it as to say you don't have a clue or were not trying to learn what is up past, present or future.

I think it would be good to see your name in the running for a BOD seat, I for one don't care that you have only been in the sport for 3 yrs, in fact your just the type of person I had in mind when I said "new blood" because you haven't been around long enough to be on the take or in someones pocket or run a DZ or be some big name hotshot team member seeking an ego stroke on the national level.

If your really thinking about running please do so, I would like to know where you stand on the issues and what fresh new ideas do you have to make our org. work once again for the membership and not the DZO's and those with friends in high places.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[turtlespeed 220]

Quote

The thread is now "headless" - the guts of the first post was removed by the original poster. It would make no sense to reinstate it.

The questions I am getting asked most frequently is "What did the message say?", so "Headless" is not really relevant, in that, it is the message she received after the OP posted that is the meat of the matter. I am not sure the OP wants it reposted, I hope they do so we can bring more light to this issue.

I agree with you Bill, more participation is fundamental in change.

Conflict of interest needs to be dealt with. And so does the main underlying issue of fraud.
But that is not what this thread is about. This thread is about the USPA and its lack of doing the right thing, several times over.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun