??? for all EMT's, Paramedics, Nurses, Doctors etc...

[iluvtofly 0]

So I'm not quite an EMT yet. I'm a little more then half way through my class. It's to the point where we are CPR certified and allowed to start doing ride alongs. I'm fortunate in that I already work for the ambulance service as a dispatcher and wheel chair van driver. Well, today as I was getting off work we got a call that was pretty sure going to be a full arrest by time we got there. I hopped on the truck to go with and learn. Well, I ended up doing CPR on the guy the entire way to the hospital. This happened a few hours ago and my adrenaline is still going from it. The guy ended up not making it but as soon as we walked in the door we figured he didn't have a chance cause he was already purple from the chest up. But we still did everything in out power. I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm not sure how to feel about the whole situation. I'm excited cause it was my first cardiac arrest call and my first time ever doing CPR on an actual patient but at the same time I feel bad cause he didn't make it despite us doing everything we could. Does this feeling ever go away? How do you cope with this kind of thing? It deffinately hasn't turned me off from becoming an EMT...I'm just not sure how I should feel about it.

[AggieDave 6]

I work in the public service industry and although I'm not an EMT I've been around a lot of death and destruction as well as serious medical emergencies. Many times I'm around long before the medics can get there.

There are some seriously hard core adrenaline dumps that occur and there are some situations that are incredibly sad or difficult. However, you'll learn how to deal with it in your own way. Be it chatting with a friend about it or working out or something. Just resist the urge to drink it away. Sometimes you'll enjoy letting loose with a few drinks, just be careful. Its a profession that has some heaving drinking and abuse problems because of that.

I've found that many people simply compartmentalize and separate at work death away from personal life deaths. You have compassion for the people you're trying to help, but you can't let them effect you personally.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[metta 0]

I don't know that the feeling of sadness in those situations ever goes away---and I don't know if you would want it to go away completely because does that mean you lose your compassion for people if it does? I think it is a balancing act in some ways...you have to make sure it doesn't completely overwhelm you because you don't want to get to the point where it keeps you from doing your job. The hardest things to deal with usually involve kids.

One thing to remember too...and I am sure they have talked about it in your classes...folks in full arrest generally don't make it. I think in all of the times I have been called to a code--in the hospital---not one of those patients lived, and that is where there are all the things that you would need to use, so imagine when you have someone down in the field for a while. But I do have a friend who coded in the gym and made it---because there was a defibrillator close by!

My experience is as a nurse by the way---I went to EMT school first, and then ended up in Nursing school.

[Squeak 17]

CPR failure rate is very high, do not feel as though , you contributed, everything you did was a positive
It's a buzz having the adreniline runing thoguh you isint it

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Lindsey 0]

I'm just not sure how I should feel about it.

There's not a "should feel" to it. It's just how you feel.

The worst situation like that in my short history was being called to the ER by a VERY competent ER nurse. When she said she needed me there NOW, I said, "Fuck, if YOU need ME, then it's bad." When I got there, there was an old friend. Fuck. And he was obviously screwed.

ESRD. Apparently had tied one on. I had talked with him the previous day in Mad Butcher. He was recalling who graduated from Fordyce High in which years....we're talking about in my day, and I graduated in '84. He still remembered who graduated when back then.

Bennie was a moonshiner. A colorful character. Someone whom I'd share an easy hour with just shootin' the shit. But at 5am, with his thick neck, after his trachea had been perforated...his thick tongue protruding from his mouth, all I could say was "God DAMMIT! I need a scalpel." Did an emergency trach on a friend. He died, but he died with an airway.

And I learned something from him that morning. "How I felt" (and feel) gutted me. But you do your job. You're human, and you're gonna feel. You'll make morbid jokes because it's how you cope with so much of what you see. It's horrendous sometimes. I'm new and not very tough, but I'm learning. I guess we all do. I don't know what you should feel. I DO remember that my grandmother used to tell me that if I wasn't careful I'd should all over myself.

Peace~
linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[iluvtofly 0]

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You'll make morbid jokes because it's how you cope with so much of what you see. It's horrendous sometimes.

I think that's the part I'm having the biggest problem with. I was laughing and making jokes (not about the patient) within 5 minutes of this all happening. I'm just worried this makes me a bad person. Laughter and cracking jokes has always been my coping mechanism. And I know alot of people in this line of work do the same thing. I guess when I got to thinking about it I realized afterwards that was a real person I was working on...shouldn't I be more saddened by his death? But at the same time I don't want to let it get to me too much cause then I won't be able to do my job. I dunno...there's just so many thoughts and feelings going through my head I don't even know how to express them all right now.

[iluvtofly 0]

I do know that the failure rate is very high. And like I said we were pretty sure the guy was dead once we walked in the door. He had a history of cardiac problems, and this was reassured when we saw the pacemaker/defibrilator in his chest. I guess I just wish I would have seen some sort of result from my effort.



And yes the adrenaline is great. My one friend said it must of been something since I willingly jump from airplanes and this got my adrenaline going.

[LouDiamond 1]

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I feel bad cause he didn't make it despite us doing everything we could. Does this feeling ever go away? How do you cope with this kind of thing? It deffinately hasn't turned me off from becoming an EMT...I'm just not sure how I should feel about it.

I've had to do CPR in combat as well as on the DZ on more than one occassion in the not so distant past, some of them I knew personaly, others I didn't. You answered your own question to this situation in the first sentence above.At the end of the day, if you can look back and say that you did everything you could do and the person still died then you shouldn't feel bad about your performance. You said he was already purple when you got there, so you have acknowledged that you knew his chances were very slim before you even touched him. Don't feel bad or be hard on yourself based on your failed efforts in trying to save him, it is not a reflection of your efforts. However, it is fine to feel bad about a human being passing, just don't blame yourself for his passing.

How you deal with it and process it varies from individual to individual. When it is someone you know, it is always very hard and its always extremely difficult when its a child that has passed. No one can really tell you how you should feel about it other than yourself. Morbid jokes and picking up where you left off after the fact is natural and everyone does it, usually after their first. Thats not to say 2-3 days, a week, a month later the event won't pop into your head at some point and you might think about it and have feelings or thoughts. So how should you feel? You tell me, only you can determine that. Just don't fall into the trap thinking that you have to bear the weight of those deaths you'll encounter on the job on your shoulders.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[skybeergodd 0]

you will quickly learn to detach yourself from your patients. When I first started(a long time ago) I used to stay in the ER room and assist or follow up with patients. Now as soon as they off my cot they are off my mind. It may sound uncaring or cruel but it's just a way to cope. I give top notch care to every patient and treat everyone with respect(at least the non drunk ones who are pissing me off at the time).
To tell the truth it really is a hard job to do for a very long time. After 18 years I can see the appeal of other jobs......But Good Luck and stick with it. The EMS field always needs new and enthusiastic people.

[DFWAJG 4]

Everyone starts out this way Cyndi. After you spend day after day with these events, you will learn not to take it home with you. You can't take it home with you or it will kill you. You'll learn to crack jokes sometimes, too, as someone else here suggested. Give it time. Once in a while, there will be a code or a patient that you'll bring home, but it won't be everyday.

Keep in mind, the person you had with you was dead. Everything you did would only have helped to bring him back. You did the best you could do.

[Lindsey 0]

The other thing I've learned is that I'm FAR from adequate. There are people who are lots better than me, and some people may actually die because I was their doctor. I keep trying to study, learn, improve my skills, but I'm inadequate, at this point, in comparison to drdive and some others. BUT when it's you there with that patient, you are the best chance they have. Don't blow it off. LEARN. That's the best thing you can do for the people who die when you're the one taking care of them. Learn everything you can to give the next person a slight edge if you can. Or at least that's what I try to do.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[skymedic 0]

After 15 years as a paramedic I have just learned not to care the same way about patients. I always ALWAYS do my best and make sure my team does our best...BUT if I were to stop and actually care it would be difficult at best. As kelly said detaching is what happens after a while...and thats ok. and it is ok to laugh and joke about the screwed up stuff you see out on the streets. it helps vent and get that stuff off your mind. Nothing like seeing a decapitated 15 year old and then go and eat a big old heaping plate of spaghetti 45 minutes later. It's just what ya do.

BUT good job on your call. those first ones are the best. AND the good news is even after all this time...I am still surprised by the complete ingenuity of people to screw them selves up in another weird way. and we get to fix em. Makes it kinda fun and challenging.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[skymedic 0]

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he other thing I've learned is that I'm FAR from adequate. There are people who are lots better than me, and some people may actually die because I was their doctor. I keep trying to study, learn, improve my skills, but I'm inadequate, at this point, in comparison to drdive and some others.

And that is why I want you to be my Dr. A Doc that understands that it is OK to not know everything and that keeps understand that it is PRACTICING medicine is the one for me. Learning is key...people stuck in the dark ages scare me. unfortunately there are a ton of docs/nurses/medics/emts's out there like that.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[drdive 0]

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The other thing I've learned is that I'm FAR from adequate. There are people who are lots better than me, and some people may actually die because I was their doctor. I keep trying to study, learn, improve my skills, but I'm inadequate, at this point, in comparison to drdive and some others. BUT when it's you there with that patient, you are the best chance they have. Don't blow it off. LEARN. That's the best thing you can do for the people who die when you're the one taking care of them. Learn everything you can to give the next person a slight edge if you can. Or at least that's what I try to do.

linz

Linz

Never say you are inadequate. We all do the best we can. You need to think the patient is fortunate that YOU were the doc there trying to save their life. Your condidence in yourself and your staff SAVES LIVES EVERY DAY. Some die. Some live. Many that live are because of you. Most that die are NOT because of you, but because it is there time to die. Our job is awesome sometimes, other times it is beyond comprehension. Hang in there, as the original poster should. Been there, done that, felt inadequate many many times.

Give thanks for your own health.

Ed

"We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub"

"

[mamajumps 0]

I too am in EMT school, about half way thru. I have not encountered any one passing yet, but as an overly compasionate person, I can imagine its gonna be rough for me. I know here we have couselors available to talk to just for this sort of thing. Its a lot to deal with mentally and physically. Check with your school or dept and see whats available. Maybe you can find some sort of peace in knowing that you did do all you could do. I firmly believe that when it is our time, it is our time, regardless of what help may be there. Thank-you for doing all you could do and going thru the schooling to become and EMT, I know how tough it is.

[kbordson 8]

Cyndi,

I became a nurse in 1993 and been a Dr. since 2002. I have seen many people die (some family members that it tore me up not to resuscitate, some patients that we worked HARD to resuscitate.)

The WORST phrase that I know - "Time of Death: "

Even though we learn, and we work and we try.... sometimes we do not have the power to change what will be. That fact is humbling and can make you feel very inadequate. It can make you question your knowledge (I wasn't smart enough), your skill (If I had done this different) and your character (I shouldn't be joking). . . . It can and will drain some. It's a VERY difficult profession. It's not just pushing paper or submitting proposals . . . it's someones LIFE. And sometimes it's hard to separate the "YOU" from that. So... when there are bad outcomes (nice euphemism for he/she dies), you do tend to take it personally. You might try not to, you might learn to distance yourself emotionally.... but it still might hurt. And there is no "how should I feel."

As mentioned above - there are different ways to cope with that. Humor (even morbid humor) is one way. Talking. Escaping (mentally or phyically doing something where you don't have to think about it - ie dz.com, exercising, skydiving, reading) Religion, Rationalizing - All are valid mechanisms.... avoid the drinking (even the rum) - during those times, it won't make you feel "better", it just might numb it for a bit.

[iluvtofly 0]

Thank you everyone for your kind words. It really helps to know that I'm not the only one out there who feels this way sometimes. I did resist going for the beer last night when I got home. I also made a point of continuing with my plans such as going to the laundromat last night and baking cookies this morning. I think that really helped...not letting myself dwell on it too long. Thanks again everyone.

[medic0079 0]

the longer you do it the less you care when people die. you realize death happens and sometimes there is nothing you can do. kinda sick but even the dead kids dont really bother me much anymore... "save the ones you can let God take the rest"
P.S. Being a medic will scar your soul.

[ladydyver 0]

I worked in the ER for about 8 yrs.....The one's who came in while in full arrest didn't really bother me. You are kind of separate from them and you just follow the protocol guidelines ect - there is no established relationship present. The ones that I have had the hardest time with are the patient's who crump on you. You have been talking to the patient, to the family and a relationship has been established. I think that you will find that there will patient's that you carry with you all of the time. For one reason or another they have left an imprint in your life - sometimes it is a really positive experience and sometimes it is a painful learning curve. Emergency medicine rocks! It definitely is challenging in a lot of different ways.

DPH # 2
"I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~
I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc!

[millertime24 8]

Ive had the same thing happen when I worked for an ER in AK. It does kinda suck at first, but we had a nurse that always made us laugh no matter how bad the situation. Surround yourself with positive people and talk about it. It wont be the last time you experience this, but it does get easier to deal with.

Muff #5048

[MrFreefall383 0]

Not an EMT or emergency healthcare provider by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm about to ship out to Coast Guard Basic and become a rescue swimmer, so I'll probably be facing the same problem in a couple years. I think the reality is that if you work in a field where death of someone under your care is a real possibility, you have to think as realistically as you can. My parents have both faced this problem, and have shared some of their experiences with me in this regard. The realistic side of it is simply that sometimes, death is not something that can be defeated.

Read a book by a former rescue swimmer, and he described three cases. One is the victim who will survive no matter what you do, whose injury is very much non-life-threatening. Second is the one who will die no matter what you do. You trust that your skills are the best they can be, but you know that it's going to take a series of miracles for this person to make it. The final one is a case where the person is on the fine edge of life and death, where if you really are on top of your game, this person may stand a chance of living. In the second two, you have to tell yourself that if the victim dies, you did everything in your power, and that sometimes death is really beyond your control. And especially as an EMT, you will likely see death more than you'd care for, so it more than likely won't be the last time you'll lose someone. From what I gather though, you seem to be on top of your game, and that will keep your outlook positive, despite your natural questions right now. Congrats on your first cardiac arrest call, and sorry the victim didn't make it.

"If at first you don't succeed... well, so much for skydiving." - aviation cliche

[Broke 0]

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Everyone starts out this way Cyndi. After you spend day after day with these events, you will learn not to take it home with you. You can't take it home with you or it will kill you. You'll learn to crack jokes sometimes, too, as someone else here suggested. Give it time. Once in a while, there will be a code or a patient that you'll bring home, but it won't be everyday.

Keep in mind, the person you had with you was dead. Everything you did would only have helped to bring him back. You did the best you could do.

Thought this was worth repeating. The guy was dead before the cops even showed up at the residnce.

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[jdthomas 0]

luvtofly
The job will get easier on you, or it does for most anyway and we are glad that you care.
In no time you will have a CPR save and that will keep you buzzing for sometime, you will then know why you do the job.
My last two cpr saves where on the same guy, many months apart from each episode.. crazy!
You will find your way.
Good luck
Joe

www.greenboxphotography.com

[Tink1717 2]

As you progress through your career, you will find that most will not make it. You will need to get used to that.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717