ZigZagMarquis 9 #326 October 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteIf for no other reason then to know for myself whether this "the tail broke off before impact" is fact of fiction. As I stated earlier, the photo already does that. The tail section did not separate in flight. You are looking at, pretty much, the entire crash site. Note the location of the left wheel and the right wing. And I don't disagree with that. To satisfy my own curriosity though, I would like to see more extensive photos of the crash site and also to include aerial photos with references to both N/S/E/W and some indication of scale. As well as, when its all said and done, I'd be currious to read the NTSB's "full" report or "file" on the investigation, findings, conclusions and supporting evidence for said conclusions... I gotta believe they put together a much more comprehensive report on any (all) mishaps they investigate that is longer and more in-depth then what appears as a "Final" report on the www.ntsb.gov website. Am I entitled to seeing such information... I'd suppose I could get it via the freedom of information act, but do I really need to... well, that's a different discussion. Again, while I don't disagree with y'all, I guess too I just don't "see" as much in that one photo as y'all do and I know I don't have all that much faith in press reports in general. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #327 October 16, 2007 The FAA and NTSB reports will probably take 18 to 24 months.It should not be a problem to get hold of. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #328 October 16, 2007 http://www.king5.com/video/news-index.html?nvid=183511 Its the tail you see in the still picture. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbdavis1 0 #329 October 16, 2007 We all would like to know what happened but I really think with the way it happened we will never know for sure. 1 pilot and what seems to me to be to high with no oxygen so hypoxia could have played a part. Then loss of control. Maybe a little vertigo and that was it.QuoteTbdavis1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DJL 235 #330 October 16, 2007 QuoteWe all would like to know what happened but I really think with the way it happened we will never know for sure. 1 pilot and what seems to me to be to high with no oxygen so hypoxia could have played a part. Then loss of control. Maybe a little vertigo and that was it.Quote Unless there's a smoking gun then we may never know. Even if there was then my understanding is that the wreckage is so severe that the cause could have been destroyed. I have already heard a ton of things that I never knew and it will help me to ask questions and make informed decisions in the future."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Joelsmom 0 #331 October 16, 2007 Thank you so much for sharing the poem you Dad shared with you. Very comforting and with your permission, I'll share it with our family. Joel's MomDropzone observer since August 5, 1999 when my son Joel Atkinson first jumped at Lost Prairie for his 18th birthday. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites upndownshop 0 #332 October 16, 2007 QuoteThank you so much for sharing the poem you Dad shared with you. Very comforting and with your permission, I'll share it with our family. Joel's Mom Please do, my sister would not mind at all. I wish everyone the best in these hrd times. thank you J Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #333 October 16, 2007 I am very sorry for your loss, and the losses of the other families. May time heal your soul. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BASE1036 0 #334 October 17, 2007 Some photos and video can be found at http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee176/base1036/ Hope this helps lessen some of the pain for some of the families. They were my friends, I can only imagine if they were my Son,Daughter or Brother.Daniel Protect Yourself and Your Loved Ones Tasers - Pepper Spray - Stun Guns and more! www.dallassecuritysupply.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumpoutnow 0 #335 October 17, 2007 I have been following this tragic event since it happened almost a week ago. My thoughts and prayers go out to friends and families of the deceased. I am a pilot of twenty years and have flown many different airplanes in various weather conditions. I have owned two Cessna Caravans and I believe them to be the best airplanes built today. But, as with everything, these machines have their limits. I would like to comment on the crash according to the data that has been provided in this and other similar forums. Let's look at the facts: 1. White Pass el. 5800msl was reporting ground temperatures at 35F with light precipitation and overcast. 2. The FAA showed the Caravan stabilize at 13,000msl before descending at a rapid rate and impacting the ground. 3. The OAT at 13,000msl should have been approximately 12F according to the adiabatic lapse rate. 4. With an approaching front laden with moisture and the OAT being 12F, the Caravan probably accumulated significant amounts of ice. 5. The ice not only adds weight to the airplane but, also changes the aerodynamic profile completely. The lift component generated by the wing suffered dramatic consequences. The control surfaces become ineffective as does the propeller. In essence no lift from the wings, and no thrust from the propeller. 6. The inertial separator should have been engaged to divert the ice away from the compressor section of the reverse flow turbine. (Maybe it was) If not, catastrophic engine failure could occur. 7. Even if the Caravan was equipped with de-ice equipment, icing of this probable magnitude could not have been overcome. 8. A descent from 13,000msl 12F OAT to Minimum Enroute Altitude for that sector would not have melted the ice as the MEA OAT would have been below freezing. 9. To compound the conditions, the front was producing winds that could possibly develop downdrafts that could not be overcome by an airplane with structural ice. 10. Spatial disorientation could be a factor with the already heavy work load on the pilot. 11. Look at the latest picture. At the top center notice the disturbed area of the ground cover. Consider the pitch of the slope in reference to the trees that grow vertical. I feel like this is the entire crash site, with the exception that some of the Caravan's fuselage broke up on impact and scattered through the brush and down the hillside. In my opinion the airplane was intact when it impacted the ground. May time heal everyone's heart.People are crazy. Cuz there's more of 'em. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mamajumps 0 #336 October 17, 2007 QuoteSome photos and video can be found at http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee176/base1036/ Hope this helps lessen some of the pain for some of the families. They were my friends, I can only imagine if they were my Son,Daughter or Brother. Clicky... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #337 October 19, 2007 Bump: NTSB releases Prelim on N430A mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mamajumps 0 #338 October 19, 2007 Thanks for the update, GODSPEED my friends..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #339 October 19, 2007 QuoteBump: NTSB releases Prelim on N430A mh . I made a Google Earth .kmz file that annotates it using information as stated in that prelim.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 9 10 11 12 13 14 Next Page 14 of 14 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
DJL 235 #330 October 16, 2007 QuoteWe all would like to know what happened but I really think with the way it happened we will never know for sure. 1 pilot and what seems to me to be to high with no oxygen so hypoxia could have played a part. Then loss of control. Maybe a little vertigo and that was it.Quote Unless there's a smoking gun then we may never know. Even if there was then my understanding is that the wreckage is so severe that the cause could have been destroyed. I have already heard a ton of things that I never knew and it will help me to ask questions and make informed decisions in the future."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Joelsmom 0 #331 October 16, 2007 Thank you so much for sharing the poem you Dad shared with you. Very comforting and with your permission, I'll share it with our family. Joel's MomDropzone observer since August 5, 1999 when my son Joel Atkinson first jumped at Lost Prairie for his 18th birthday. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites upndownshop 0 #332 October 16, 2007 QuoteThank you so much for sharing the poem you Dad shared with you. Very comforting and with your permission, I'll share it with our family. Joel's Mom Please do, my sister would not mind at all. I wish everyone the best in these hrd times. thank you J Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #333 October 16, 2007 I am very sorry for your loss, and the losses of the other families. May time heal your soul. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BASE1036 0 #334 October 17, 2007 Some photos and video can be found at http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee176/base1036/ Hope this helps lessen some of the pain for some of the families. They were my friends, I can only imagine if they were my Son,Daughter or Brother.Daniel Protect Yourself and Your Loved Ones Tasers - Pepper Spray - Stun Guns and more! www.dallassecuritysupply.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumpoutnow 0 #335 October 17, 2007 I have been following this tragic event since it happened almost a week ago. My thoughts and prayers go out to friends and families of the deceased. I am a pilot of twenty years and have flown many different airplanes in various weather conditions. I have owned two Cessna Caravans and I believe them to be the best airplanes built today. But, as with everything, these machines have their limits. I would like to comment on the crash according to the data that has been provided in this and other similar forums. Let's look at the facts: 1. White Pass el. 5800msl was reporting ground temperatures at 35F with light precipitation and overcast. 2. The FAA showed the Caravan stabilize at 13,000msl before descending at a rapid rate and impacting the ground. 3. The OAT at 13,000msl should have been approximately 12F according to the adiabatic lapse rate. 4. With an approaching front laden with moisture and the OAT being 12F, the Caravan probably accumulated significant amounts of ice. 5. The ice not only adds weight to the airplane but, also changes the aerodynamic profile completely. The lift component generated by the wing suffered dramatic consequences. The control surfaces become ineffective as does the propeller. In essence no lift from the wings, and no thrust from the propeller. 6. The inertial separator should have been engaged to divert the ice away from the compressor section of the reverse flow turbine. (Maybe it was) If not, catastrophic engine failure could occur. 7. Even if the Caravan was equipped with de-ice equipment, icing of this probable magnitude could not have been overcome. 8. A descent from 13,000msl 12F OAT to Minimum Enroute Altitude for that sector would not have melted the ice as the MEA OAT would have been below freezing. 9. To compound the conditions, the front was producing winds that could possibly develop downdrafts that could not be overcome by an airplane with structural ice. 10. Spatial disorientation could be a factor with the already heavy work load on the pilot. 11. Look at the latest picture. At the top center notice the disturbed area of the ground cover. Consider the pitch of the slope in reference to the trees that grow vertical. I feel like this is the entire crash site, with the exception that some of the Caravan's fuselage broke up on impact and scattered through the brush and down the hillside. In my opinion the airplane was intact when it impacted the ground. May time heal everyone's heart.People are crazy. Cuz there's more of 'em. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mamajumps 0 #336 October 17, 2007 QuoteSome photos and video can be found at http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee176/base1036/ Hope this helps lessen some of the pain for some of the families. They were my friends, I can only imagine if they were my Son,Daughter or Brother. Clicky... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #337 October 19, 2007 Bump: NTSB releases Prelim on N430A mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mamajumps 0 #338 October 19, 2007 Thanks for the update, GODSPEED my friends..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #339 October 19, 2007 QuoteBump: NTSB releases Prelim on N430A mh . I made a Google Earth .kmz file that annotates it using information as stated in that prelim.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 9 10 11 12 13 14 Next Page 14 of 14 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Joelsmom 0 #331 October 16, 2007 Thank you so much for sharing the poem you Dad shared with you. Very comforting and with your permission, I'll share it with our family. Joel's MomDropzone observer since August 5, 1999 when my son Joel Atkinson first jumped at Lost Prairie for his 18th birthday. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #332 October 16, 2007 QuoteThank you so much for sharing the poem you Dad shared with you. Very comforting and with your permission, I'll share it with our family. Joel's Mom Please do, my sister would not mind at all. I wish everyone the best in these hrd times. thank you J Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #333 October 16, 2007 I am very sorry for your loss, and the losses of the other families. May time heal your soul. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE1036 0 #334 October 17, 2007 Some photos and video can be found at http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee176/base1036/ Hope this helps lessen some of the pain for some of the families. They were my friends, I can only imagine if they were my Son,Daughter or Brother.Daniel Protect Yourself and Your Loved Ones Tasers - Pepper Spray - Stun Guns and more! www.dallassecuritysupply.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpoutnow 0 #335 October 17, 2007 I have been following this tragic event since it happened almost a week ago. My thoughts and prayers go out to friends and families of the deceased. I am a pilot of twenty years and have flown many different airplanes in various weather conditions. I have owned two Cessna Caravans and I believe them to be the best airplanes built today. But, as with everything, these machines have their limits. I would like to comment on the crash according to the data that has been provided in this and other similar forums. Let's look at the facts: 1. White Pass el. 5800msl was reporting ground temperatures at 35F with light precipitation and overcast. 2. The FAA showed the Caravan stabilize at 13,000msl before descending at a rapid rate and impacting the ground. 3. The OAT at 13,000msl should have been approximately 12F according to the adiabatic lapse rate. 4. With an approaching front laden with moisture and the OAT being 12F, the Caravan probably accumulated significant amounts of ice. 5. The ice not only adds weight to the airplane but, also changes the aerodynamic profile completely. The lift component generated by the wing suffered dramatic consequences. The control surfaces become ineffective as does the propeller. In essence no lift from the wings, and no thrust from the propeller. 6. The inertial separator should have been engaged to divert the ice away from the compressor section of the reverse flow turbine. (Maybe it was) If not, catastrophic engine failure could occur. 7. Even if the Caravan was equipped with de-ice equipment, icing of this probable magnitude could not have been overcome. 8. A descent from 13,000msl 12F OAT to Minimum Enroute Altitude for that sector would not have melted the ice as the MEA OAT would have been below freezing. 9. To compound the conditions, the front was producing winds that could possibly develop downdrafts that could not be overcome by an airplane with structural ice. 10. Spatial disorientation could be a factor with the already heavy work load on the pilot. 11. Look at the latest picture. At the top center notice the disturbed area of the ground cover. Consider the pitch of the slope in reference to the trees that grow vertical. I feel like this is the entire crash site, with the exception that some of the Caravan's fuselage broke up on impact and scattered through the brush and down the hillside. In my opinion the airplane was intact when it impacted the ground. May time heal everyone's heart.People are crazy. Cuz there's more of 'em. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mamajumps 0 #336 October 17, 2007 QuoteSome photos and video can be found at http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee176/base1036/ Hope this helps lessen some of the pain for some of the families. They were my friends, I can only imagine if they were my Son,Daughter or Brother. Clicky... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #337 October 19, 2007 Bump: NTSB releases Prelim on N430A mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mamajumps 0 #338 October 19, 2007 Thanks for the update, GODSPEED my friends..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #339 October 19, 2007 QuoteBump: NTSB releases Prelim on N430A mh . I made a Google Earth .kmz file that annotates it using information as stated in that prelim.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
