Bent pin..Straighten or replace??

[riggergreg 0]

Got a rig in and the first thing I do is check the data card to see when it was last packed and by who, and all mods, SBs, etc. A previous rigger had written under comments, [I&R- straighten pin]
I looked at the pin and sure enough, the pin was bent and settled just right in the grommet. I put a scale on the handle and pulled appx 30lbs to pull the pin.

I have found over the years, that once bent the pin will almost always bend again. I replace ANY bent pin. Straightening and reusing will only cause problems down the line.

Discuss....

[Miami 0]

I had a reflex once that the pin always bent on. It was a brand new personal rig and the pin bent every time I packed it. The first time it happened I opened it back up (pull force was 15lbs), straightened the pin, and repacked it to have the pin bend again. Next repack (15lb pull force to open again) I replaced the pin and it bent again, so I left it and didn't worry about it any more. Every repack it pulled at 15-17lbs. That's the only time I've every had to deal with a bent pin.

Miami

[councilman24 37]

Ditto to miami. My reflex bends the pin. And one customer had an older Talon that bent the pin no matter what we did.

This is a perfect discussion for the new PIA Rigger Forum!

One somebody starts talking.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[DeNReN 0]

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This is a perfect discussion for the new PIA Rigger Forum!

Is this forum avaible for us mere mortals to view??

[BETO74 0]

Was it a mirage? they had the mandatory reserve pin check and replace if it did not have pass the pulled test 2 years ago if I remember correctly.

http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html

[justinb138 0]

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Was it a mirage? they had the mandatory reserve pin check and replace if it did not have pass the pulled test 2 years ago if I remember correctly.

Are you referring to the Capewell SB?

[bob.dino 1]

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This is a perfect discussion for the new PIA Rigger Forum!

Is this forum avaible for us mere mortals to view??

Yes

[councilman24 37]

Everyone is welcome to view it. See the sticky at the top of the gear and rigging forum here for the link. Non-members (non-riggers) can submit questions to rigmoderator.@pia.com. If of general interest to the rigging community we'll post it. Questions like 'Will a J1 hold a manta?' are best posted here.

The new version of the forum is a day old and there isn't anything there yet except my welcomes. But I've been approving members all day.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[sundevil777 102]

This is a subject that gets me a little worked up.

I think the std reserve pin design, and the strength standard is terribly inadequate. I make that conclusion because I think it should not be possible to bend a pin while packing it, or when leaning against the airplane on the way to altitude, or when getting shoved into the door frame during the door jam-up or when diving out late.

To pass this type of abuse I think it might mean that the pin should be about 3 to 5 times stronger/stiffer than is currently the case.

I think it is very likely that the top grommet/bearing surface which the pin rides against might also be worthy of beefing up, or completely redesigning.

I am not a rigger, but I am a mech engineer, done mechanical component design for Boeing and Honda for 18 years.

More thoughts on this subject:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=575109#575109

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Miami 0]

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...I think it should not be possible to bend a pin while packing it, or when leaning against the airplane on the way to altitude, or when getting shoved into the door frame during the door jam-up or when diving out late.

My reserve pin(s) cannot be bent from leaning on anything or from jamming the reserve into the the door on a late exit, and my 6'4", 200lb self has not been able to bend one during packing...despite the fact that I pull my closing loops as tight as I physically can during closing.

Sometimes a better design is just the way to go...

Miami

[teason 0]

Something that can bend a pin quickly is to have it seated with the shoulder resting on the grommet. It's something you should always look for especially when tightening a pop top. The pin wants to be flat from one side of the grommet to the other. The shoulder lifts it up and the tension bends it.


.....and now to the PIA riggers forum

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[mjosparky 4]

The pins in use today were developed about 50 years ago. Both types of pins, terminal and intermediate, were designed for use on containers that used “cones” where most of the pressure was applied to the cone a grommet. With the through loop of today all the closing pressure is applied to the pin.

In the early 80’s ParaInnovtors developed a SS pin that was soldered to the cable and was strong as shit. It had some problems, in my opinion, but it was a step in the right direction. We need someone with the resources to step up and invent a pin that is compatible with the modern sport rig.

Do I hear any takers?

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[crazydiver 0]

I"m interested in why no one has mentioned the RW pin that connects to the skyhook. Would this not be a viable option as a beefier pin already in existance?

I dont know the specific strength of the capewell type or the RW type, but the RW pin definetly seems beefier.

Cheers,
Travis

[sundevil777 102]

The reserve pin of the Vector is a significant departure from the standard. I think RWS would do well to advertise the benefit of their reserve pin. If would push the other mfgs to step it up.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[sundevil777 102]

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I"m interested in why no one has mentioned the RW pin that connects to the skyhook. Would this not be a viable option as a beefier pin already in existance?

That pin existed before the skyhook, I do believe.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[crazydiver 0]

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I"m interested in why no one has mentioned the RW pin that connects to the skyhook. Would this not be a viable option as a beefier pin already in existance?

That pin existed before the skyhook, I do believe.

I'm pretty sure you are correct, I was just saying the one that connects to the skyhook for clarification.

Cheers,
Travis

[riggergreg 0]

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I"m interested in why no one has mentioned the RW pin that connects to the skyhook. Would this not be a viable option as a beefier pin already in existance?

That pin is only used on RSL equiped containers. We need something for non RSL rigs also

[crazydiver 0]

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I"m interested in why no one has mentioned the RW pin that connects to the skyhook. Would this not be a viable option as a beefier pin already in existance?

That pin is only used on RSL equiped containers. We need something for non RSL rigs also

but it could also be used without an RSL. Simply leave off the rsl but keep the RW pin and marine eye. Even if the marine eye is not preferred, then we can devise a way to connect a ripcord to the RW pin.

Cheers,
Travis

[Hooknswoop 19]

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but it could also be used without an RSL. Simply leave off the rsl but keep the RW pin and marine eye. Even if the marine eye is not preferred, then we can devise a way to connect a ripcord to the RW pin.

RWS may go to Spectra reserve ripcord cables, which is very easy to attach (and replace) to a RWS RSL-style reserve ripcord pin.

Derek

[RMURRAY 1]

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...I think it should not be possible to bend a pin while packing it, or when leaning against the airplane on the way to altitude, or when getting shoved into the door frame during the door jam-up or when diving out late.

My reserve pin(s) cannot be bent from leaning on anything or from jamming the reserve into the the door on a late exit, and my 6'4", 200lb self has not been able to bend one during packing...despite the fact that I pull my closing loops as tight as I physically can during closing.

Sometimes a better design is just the way to go...

yes, I always check but never will see bent pins on my racer. you should get a copy of the new reserve packing DVD from JumpShack, very little effort used to close (keep in mind I am not a rigger).

rm

[riggerrob 643]

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Was it a mirage? they had the mandatory reserve pin check and replace if it did not have pass the pulled test 2 years ago if I remember correctly.

Are you referring to the Capewell SB?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No.
The Capewell Service Bulletin - and just about every container manufacturer - was about cracking ripcord pins that suffered catastrophic failure, not the gentle bending concerning the original poster.

[jumpwally 0]

I always looked at the pins and thought, " man these are really scimpy" so why don't we have a better pin design ? I agree with whoever said that there should be no such thing as a bent pin !!

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[ruthers 0]

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The reserve pin of the Vector is a significant departure from the standard. I think RWS would do well to advertise the benefit of their reserve pin. If would push the other mfgs to step it up.

The RWS RSL pin can certainly bend too.

I was quite surprised to get a call from the guy packing my Vector 3 (with skyhook), saying that the pin was bent and he has to replace it. I had looked at the pin and reserve closing loop the last time I jumped it and didn't notice any bend. I haven't seen the bent pin yet (the replacement is still in the post) but will be interested to see it. I really can't imagine how it got bent. I haven't been jamming against doors or snagged it, but somehow it got bent. Bit of a worry -I guess the reserve closing loop must have been close to breaking point.

[sundevil777 102]

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The reserve pin of the Vector is a significant departure from the standard. I think RWS would do well to advertise the benefit of their reserve pin. If would push the other mfgs to step it up.

The RWS RSL pin can certainly bend too.

I was quite surprised to get a call from the guy packing my Vector 3 (with skyhook), saying that the pin was bent and he has to replace it. I had looked at the pin and reserve closing loop the last time I jumped it and didn't notice any bend. I haven't seen the bent pin yet (the replacement is still in the post) but will be interested to see it. I really can't imagine how it got bent. I haven't been jamming against doors or snagged it, but somehow it got bent. Bit of a worry -I guess the reserve closing loop must have been close to breaking point.

It is apparently too easy to see the larger diameter and conclude that it is significantly stronger. Data comparing the strength, material spec, and diameter would be very interesting.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[pchapman 279]

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packing my Vector 3 (with skyhook), saying that the pin was bent and he has to replace it.

FWIW,
I have seen that before a couple times with UPT pins, the ones that were used for many years but are slimmer than the newest ones. Don't know if it happened over time when installed or perhaps some levering action going on when trying to insert the RSL pin in a very tight loop.