rigger_john 0 #1 June 22, 2006 Question for all the riggers out there. What in your opinion is the correct length of excess cable on a reserve ripcord, from the terminal fitting to the inside of the handle? How do you come to this figure? How much is to little & too much? Why? Over to you guys_________________________________________ Nullius in Verba Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 28 #2 June 22, 2006 just a curious non-rigger - why are you asking?The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #3 June 22, 2006 Whatever the manufacturer has determined is apropriate, whatever is TSO'd with the system, and whatever works.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 5 #4 June 22, 2006 My first response is "what the container manufacturer says" but in absence of that number I'd say 2 inches (5 cm). -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigger_john 0 #5 June 22, 2006 Quotejust a curious non-rigger - why are you asking? A few reasons, but amongst them are that opinions among riggers differ, I see big variations on rigs from the same company with no obvious reason as to why._________________________________________ Nullius in Verba Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigger_john 0 #6 June 22, 2006 QuoteWhatever the manufacturer has determined is apropriate, whatever is TSO'd with the system, and whatever works. I have never found any where in a manual that states what the excess should be, and manufactures have sent me replacments that differed in lenght from the original even after quoting serial numbers._________________________________________ Nullius in Verba Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigger_john 0 #7 June 22, 2006 QuoteMy first response is "what the container manufacturer says" but in absence of that number I'd say 2 inches (5 cm). Ok so you say two inches, why is 1 too short and is 3 too long again why?_________________________________________ Nullius in Verba Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnJ 0 #8 June 22, 2006 Quote Ok so you say two inches, why is 1 too short and is 3 too long again why? The reasons I can imagine why 1 is to short and 3 to long? why 1 is to short? In general, to avoid tension on the cable in all situations. A bigger canopy in a small container would stretch the fabric more leaving less spare on the cable Make it easier to get the handle from it's pocket without the cable interfering. when talking about the reserve ripcord: When opening the main, the nylon (for example mainlift) will stretch but your cable won't. Your handle is attached to the mainlift so it would be pulled. The heavier the load / harder the opening, the further the handle will be pulled. specially when a big guy/girl is squeezed in a fairly small rig where the webbing is already under tension. or what about a tandem or military with an x amount of equipment you should have some space on your ripcord to avoid this. Why not 3" why should you have more cable then necessary? It can only be in your way. The only thing I can think of that would be a + is when the ball bearing goes of, you could get an hold to the cable itself . And there are probably some reasons more I just don't think about at this moment. John J. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 164 #9 June 22, 2006 QuoteQuestion for all the riggers out there. What in your opinion is the correct length of excess cable on a reserve ripcord, from the terminal fitting to the inside of the handle? How do you come to this figure? How much is to little & too much? Why? Over to you guys Technical answer: Too long: longer than the MFG makes it for that rig Too short: shorter than the MFG makes it for that rig. My thoughts on the real world: Too long: long enough that it chances snagging on things... too long to tuck neatly into the pocket with the handle (after ensuring the end/ball swedge). Too short: there should be at least a little slack in the cable when the pin is seated all the way and the housing and MLW are stretched tight. Any shorter and you are risking a premature deployment. HOWEVER, if I found one outside of my "real world" thoughts, I would contact the mfg before adjusting things... whether or not it goes in the air first depends on how far out it is... Above are my own guidelines, but really in the absence of the mfg it is an educated judgement call. When in doubt, call the mfg. JimAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigger_john 0 #10 June 22, 2006 Quote Too long: long enough that it chances snagging on things... too long to tuck neatly into the pocket with the handle (after ensuring the end/ball swedge). You're kidding right? QuoteAbove are my own guidelines, but really in the absence of the mfg it is an educated judgement call. When in doubt, call the mfg. Jim Good points, how about this and I'm not making this up. I had a rig for a I+R and the ripcord extended 1 1/2 inches past the handle, thats past the bottom of the handle, total excesss of about 5 1/2 ". I contacted the manufacture who told me the ripcord should be X length from tip to ball, I mesured the ripcord and it was exactly the right length. According to everybody who say ask the manufacture I should return that to service as is?_________________________________________ Nullius in Verba Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 164 #11 June 22, 2006 QuoteQuote Too long: long enough that it chances snagging on things... too long to tuck neatly into the pocket with the handle (after ensuring the end/ball swedge). You're kidding right? No, not kidding but it was a general case description... I prefer the cable end tucked back into the pocket. However this is not possible or desireable with all rig designs. Larger rigs, or different designs require more slack (see the "real world - too short"). This mfg may have a reason why it needs to be that long. However, I don't always buy the mfg's statement that "that's the spec'ed measurement for that rig"... when things still don't seem right I will chase down the issue with them. Recently worked with a rig where replacements parts built to spec for the rig simply do not fit. (17y.o. rig built before the design was sold to current mfg) End result was that we shipped it to them for custom parts. Talk to them about what you are seeing and what your concerns are. I've yet to find one that would not work with me (or educate me on "why"). If you still are not comfortable with the rig, don't pack it. JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #12 June 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Too long: long enough that it chances snagging on things... too long to tuck neatly into the pocket with the handle (after ensuring the end/ball swedge). You're kidding right? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This might be a convenient way to measure ripcord cables, but it is a bad habit to seal ball swages in Velcro. Some manufacturers warn against this practice because they worry that strong Velcro combined with a stretchy harness might pop the reserve ripcord pin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #13 June 22, 2006 There should be a minimum of 1" slack between the ball swage and the top of the ripcord handle, any less slack and you risk popping the reserve pin during a hard (main) opening. On the other end, we try to avoid ball swages hanging below the bottom edge of the handle, because that increases the risk of accidentally pulling the ripcord. Ideally, the ball hangs between the middle and bottom of the D handle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #14 June 22, 2006 Quotejust a curious non-rigger - why are you asking? Non-rigger response. Here's my take on this issue. If the cable is too long, it might be difficult for a person with short arms to take up all the slack in the cable to pull the reserve. You don't want to be at full arm's length, and still not have the reserve pins cleared. If the cable is too short, then doing something such as lifting the rig by the riser to don it, or arching really hard, might stretch the rig enough that the cable will pull the pins, causing a premature or accidental reserve deployment. And there might be something to allowing the user to accelerate the handle a bit when activating the reserve, before encountering the resistance of the pins. You want a running start to more easily overcome the pull force. So you want enough length to securely keep the reserve closed, but not so much that it's difficult to open. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #15 June 22, 2006 QuoteSome manufacturers warn against this practice because they worry that strong Velcro combined with a stretchy harness might pop the reserve ripcord pin. I have seen exactly that happen. Their reserve deployed as they did a front loop. Stowing the excess cable in the velco sandwich is a very bad idea. The slack is there for a reason. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggermick 7 #16 June 23, 2006 A bigger canopy in a small container would stretch the fabric more leaving less spare on the cable Not exactly, for many years the use of compression only housings and fixed hard point attachments won't allow this to happen. If the housing becomes seperated from it's hard point at either end then all bet's are off. We had three different length cables for the Reflex, 26, 27 and 28 inches respectivly, these were nessessary for the different sizes of rigs we produced. As Rob stated earlier the cable should stop inside the the lower half of the trapazoid handle. This arrangement allows for plenty of slack in the cable and a cable that is not too long, allowing for pin extrection. Anyone remember the Pigmee SOS handles and their length issus? We (collectivly) learned the hard way on that one. Mick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnJ 0 #17 June 23, 2006 Dear Mick, I thought there were still 3 types of flex housings. 1. Compress. 2. Stretch. 3. Compress & Stretch. And surely the difference in length would be minimal. I was just thinking out loud why manufactures would (have) made their ripcords longer then necessary at first sight. Perhaps I'm running behind on the facts then BTW, We had a complete batch of operational material from which we had the reserve ripcords replaced because they were too short and when big guys with a lot of equipment jumped them they popped their reserve at opening. TB from the mfg after our notification and replacements on our costs. Greetings John J. Edit: typo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggermick 7 #18 June 25, 2006 QuoteDear Mick, I thought there were still 3 types of flex housings. 1. Compress. 2. Stretch. 3. Compress & Stretch. And surely the difference in length would be minimal. I was just thinking out loud why manufactures would (have) made their ripcords longer then necessary at first sight. Perhaps I'm running behind on the facts then BTW, We had a complete batch of operational material from which we had the reserve ripcords replaced because they were too short and when big guys with a lot of equipment jumped them they popped their reserve at opening. TB from the mfg after our notification and replacements on our costs. Greetings John J. Edit: typo Dear John, Sorry, A dear John letter (anyone?) is sad/comedic. Aside form millatary apps no one in the civy world uses anything other than compression housings. Haven't done for years! Mainly because most jumps that occuer in this day and age are civilian (IE: non combat), so the the "stretch" angle is/ has not been an issue (unless the R/C cable is too short). So, yes my statement still stands as correct. You will always find inconsistencies in current configurations, but that's how it goes (for ANY ) business. Remember "It's not rocket science!!) Mick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
riggerrob 643 #12 June 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote Too long: long enough that it chances snagging on things... too long to tuck neatly into the pocket with the handle (after ensuring the end/ball swedge). You're kidding right? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This might be a convenient way to measure ripcord cables, but it is a bad habit to seal ball swages in Velcro. Some manufacturers warn against this practice because they worry that strong Velcro combined with a stretchy harness might pop the reserve ripcord pin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #13 June 22, 2006 There should be a minimum of 1" slack between the ball swage and the top of the ripcord handle, any less slack and you risk popping the reserve pin during a hard (main) opening. On the other end, we try to avoid ball swages hanging below the bottom edge of the handle, because that increases the risk of accidentally pulling the ripcord. Ideally, the ball hangs between the middle and bottom of the D handle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #14 June 22, 2006 Quotejust a curious non-rigger - why are you asking? Non-rigger response. Here's my take on this issue. If the cable is too long, it might be difficult for a person with short arms to take up all the slack in the cable to pull the reserve. You don't want to be at full arm's length, and still not have the reserve pins cleared. If the cable is too short, then doing something such as lifting the rig by the riser to don it, or arching really hard, might stretch the rig enough that the cable will pull the pins, causing a premature or accidental reserve deployment. And there might be something to allowing the user to accelerate the handle a bit when activating the reserve, before encountering the resistance of the pins. You want a running start to more easily overcome the pull force. So you want enough length to securely keep the reserve closed, but not so much that it's difficult to open. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #15 June 22, 2006 QuoteSome manufacturers warn against this practice because they worry that strong Velcro combined with a stretchy harness might pop the reserve ripcord pin. I have seen exactly that happen. Their reserve deployed as they did a front loop. Stowing the excess cable in the velco sandwich is a very bad idea. The slack is there for a reason. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggermick 7 #16 June 23, 2006 A bigger canopy in a small container would stretch the fabric more leaving less spare on the cable Not exactly, for many years the use of compression only housings and fixed hard point attachments won't allow this to happen. If the housing becomes seperated from it's hard point at either end then all bet's are off. We had three different length cables for the Reflex, 26, 27 and 28 inches respectivly, these were nessessary for the different sizes of rigs we produced. As Rob stated earlier the cable should stop inside the the lower half of the trapazoid handle. This arrangement allows for plenty of slack in the cable and a cable that is not too long, allowing for pin extrection. Anyone remember the Pigmee SOS handles and their length issus? We (collectivly) learned the hard way on that one. Mick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnJ 0 #17 June 23, 2006 Dear Mick, I thought there were still 3 types of flex housings. 1. Compress. 2. Stretch. 3. Compress & Stretch. And surely the difference in length would be minimal. I was just thinking out loud why manufactures would (have) made their ripcords longer then necessary at first sight. Perhaps I'm running behind on the facts then BTW, We had a complete batch of operational material from which we had the reserve ripcords replaced because they were too short and when big guys with a lot of equipment jumped them they popped their reserve at opening. TB from the mfg after our notification and replacements on our costs. Greetings John J. Edit: typo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggermick 7 #18 June 25, 2006 QuoteDear Mick, I thought there were still 3 types of flex housings. 1. Compress. 2. Stretch. 3. Compress & Stretch. And surely the difference in length would be minimal. I was just thinking out loud why manufactures would (have) made their ripcords longer then necessary at first sight. Perhaps I'm running behind on the facts then BTW, We had a complete batch of operational material from which we had the reserve ripcords replaced because they were too short and when big guys with a lot of equipment jumped them they popped their reserve at opening. TB from the mfg after our notification and replacements on our costs. Greetings John J. Edit: typo Dear John, Sorry, A dear John letter (anyone?) is sad/comedic. Aside form millatary apps no one in the civy world uses anything other than compression housings. Haven't done for years! Mainly because most jumps that occuer in this day and age are civilian (IE: non combat), so the the "stretch" angle is/ has not been an issue (unless the R/C cable is too short). So, yes my statement still stands as correct. You will always find inconsistencies in current configurations, but that's how it goes (for ANY ) business. Remember "It's not rocket science!!) Mick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
riggerrob 643 #13 June 22, 2006 There should be a minimum of 1" slack between the ball swage and the top of the ripcord handle, any less slack and you risk popping the reserve pin during a hard (main) opening. On the other end, we try to avoid ball swages hanging below the bottom edge of the handle, because that increases the risk of accidentally pulling the ripcord. Ideally, the ball hangs between the middle and bottom of the D handle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #14 June 22, 2006 Quotejust a curious non-rigger - why are you asking? Non-rigger response. Here's my take on this issue. If the cable is too long, it might be difficult for a person with short arms to take up all the slack in the cable to pull the reserve. You don't want to be at full arm's length, and still not have the reserve pins cleared. If the cable is too short, then doing something such as lifting the rig by the riser to don it, or arching really hard, might stretch the rig enough that the cable will pull the pins, causing a premature or accidental reserve deployment. And there might be something to allowing the user to accelerate the handle a bit when activating the reserve, before encountering the resistance of the pins. You want a running start to more easily overcome the pull force. So you want enough length to securely keep the reserve closed, but not so much that it's difficult to open. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #15 June 22, 2006 QuoteSome manufacturers warn against this practice because they worry that strong Velcro combined with a stretchy harness might pop the reserve ripcord pin. I have seen exactly that happen. Their reserve deployed as they did a front loop. Stowing the excess cable in the velco sandwich is a very bad idea. The slack is there for a reason. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggermick 7 #16 June 23, 2006 A bigger canopy in a small container would stretch the fabric more leaving less spare on the cable Not exactly, for many years the use of compression only housings and fixed hard point attachments won't allow this to happen. If the housing becomes seperated from it's hard point at either end then all bet's are off. We had three different length cables for the Reflex, 26, 27 and 28 inches respectivly, these were nessessary for the different sizes of rigs we produced. As Rob stated earlier the cable should stop inside the the lower half of the trapazoid handle. This arrangement allows for plenty of slack in the cable and a cable that is not too long, allowing for pin extrection. Anyone remember the Pigmee SOS handles and their length issus? We (collectivly) learned the hard way on that one. Mick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnJ 0 #17 June 23, 2006 Dear Mick, I thought there were still 3 types of flex housings. 1. Compress. 2. Stretch. 3. Compress & Stretch. And surely the difference in length would be minimal. I was just thinking out loud why manufactures would (have) made their ripcords longer then necessary at first sight. Perhaps I'm running behind on the facts then BTW, We had a complete batch of operational material from which we had the reserve ripcords replaced because they were too short and when big guys with a lot of equipment jumped them they popped their reserve at opening. TB from the mfg after our notification and replacements on our costs. Greetings John J. Edit: typo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggermick 7 #18 June 25, 2006 QuoteDear Mick, I thought there were still 3 types of flex housings. 1. Compress. 2. Stretch. 3. Compress & Stretch. And surely the difference in length would be minimal. I was just thinking out loud why manufactures would (have) made their ripcords longer then necessary at first sight. Perhaps I'm running behind on the facts then BTW, We had a complete batch of operational material from which we had the reserve ripcords replaced because they were too short and when big guys with a lot of equipment jumped them they popped their reserve at opening. TB from the mfg after our notification and replacements on our costs. Greetings John J. Edit: typo Dear John, Sorry, A dear John letter (anyone?) is sad/comedic. Aside form millatary apps no one in the civy world uses anything other than compression housings. Haven't done for years! Mainly because most jumps that occuer in this day and age are civilian (IE: non combat), so the the "stretch" angle is/ has not been an issue (unless the R/C cable is too short). So, yes my statement still stands as correct. You will always find inconsistencies in current configurations, but that's how it goes (for ANY ) business. Remember "It's not rocket science!!) Mick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
