shropshire 0 #1 August 7, 2007 So, I have an 883C Sporty (yes I know.... enough laughing already) and it breaths like an asthmatic ant carry some heavy shopping. I changed the air filter and knocked out the baffels in the exhaust (Muffler[US]) and not only does she sound better but I think that she is breathing better. My question is does..... the carb' need rejetting and how would I tell if it needed to be anyway? Cheers folks. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gonzalesna 0 #2 August 7, 2007 QuoteSo, I have an 883C Sporty (yes I know.... enough laughing already) and it breaths like an asthmatic ant carry some heavy shopping. I changed the air filter and knocked out the baffels in the exhaust (Muffler[US]) and not only does she sound better but I think that she is breathing better. My question is does..... the carb' need rejetting and how would I tell if it needed to be anyway? Cheers folks. What year is your 883?Some people refrain from beating a dead horse. Personally, I find a myriad of entertainment value when beating it until it becomes a horse-smoothie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #3 August 7, 2007 About 2003 (off the top of my head). (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 858 #4 August 7, 2007 given how rich HD's run in the first place, you're more than likely very safe where it's at now...however...I have found the dyno machines at the rallies to be very helpful in this exact situation. keep a close eye on your plugs, so long as they don't look real gray, you're prolly good..again, it will always be better if it is re-jetted, depends on the money you want to spend. now if/when you cam it up...no doubt she'll want and need new jets. now if she were newer with fuel injection...you can do it with a laptop...I have the HD race tuner...and hacked the software so it works with all sleds, not just the first one it is mated to...edited to add: to tell if it is having fuel delivery issues: any popping/cracking of the exhaust sound on acceleration or deceleration, sluggish feel, or hesitation when you roll on the throttle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #5 August 7, 2007 Cheers Mate (I thought about looking at the plugs but didn't really know what to look for exactly. colour but not much else). She pops a bit on the over run (like my old Duke did - sounded mean!! but she has nor air filters at all, just a velocity stack and a Granny catcher) but not too much My old 1200 was Stage 2'd but a shop did that. So, I'll keep and eye on the plugs and see if they change colour. Ta. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #6 August 7, 2007 If I recall correctly we used to run the bikes up to about 35-40mph and shut it down and let it coast to a stop then pull out a plug if the plug looks clean probably no need to re-jet if it has a black carbon build up you should re-jetYou can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #7 August 7, 2007 Cheers Rick. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 858 #8 August 7, 2007 black carbon appearance - too rich, needs smaller jets grey ashy appearance - too lean, needs larger jets (lean also means increased heat and can be VERY bad for motor if excessively lean) we used to just buy a handful of assorted sizes to swap out until it was about right... Rick's testing method is about right too...although we usually ran it that way after a throttle up and down, allowing the bike to coast down on it's own on the first run, that way you can hear if she pops after throttle is let up...lets you know if the jets are too big also.. boy it's been a few years since I've played with jetting...but I think I still have an in-line 4 mercury gauge.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #9 August 7, 2007 Not necessarily. You didnt really increase the air intake. You just put it back the way it was supposed to be by giving it a clean filter. It was already jetted for that airflow. Had you upgraded the intake in some way allowing for more airflow, you would need to re-jet.__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #10 August 7, 2007 Quotegiven how rich HD's run in the first place, you're more than likely very safe where it's at now. Harley's run very lean out of the factory. Not rich.__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #11 August 7, 2007 QuoteQuotegiven how rich HD's run in the first place, you're more than likely very safe where it's at now. Harley's run very lean out of the factory. Not rich. but doesn't knocking out the baffles sometimes cause a need for re-jetting?You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #12 August 7, 2007 That was my thinking too.. They are standard pipes and so the center tunnel (that I drilled through and knocked out) is only narrow (maybe an inch in diameter). So it's still a restriction from the main downpipe (if that makes sense). Thanks everyone. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #13 August 7, 2007 P.S Nice bike (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #14 August 7, 2007 Give Warr's a ring Tel: 020 8857 9198, Old Fred knew more about Harley's than Milwaukee, Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 858 #15 August 7, 2007 Totally disagree....and the power commander is the hottest, leanest tuner available. I took one off my last sled as it was running the motor WAYYYY hot. My friends that teach at MMI here in Orlando and I were installing the 103' stroker on my electraglide...noticable bit of heat damage from running lean with the power commander installed after putting aftermarket pipes, intake topless, and cams in the bitch. back to stock ignition, retuned with race tuner, less heat, more horsey power. what do I know...I've only owned a number of sleds. all the ones I've had (like any others Ive seen) ran so rich you could smell unburnt fuel from the exhaust. That is slowly changing thanks to the EPA, and the reason we'll have catalytic converters and then water colled power plants. but an '03 1200 factory sporty....my money would be on it being on the rich side prior to opening it up for more air in / more air out. I still say put her on the dyno. we're all guessing without an exhaust gas analyzer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #16 August 7, 2007 Quote Quote Quote given how rich HD's run in the first place, you're more than likely very safe where it's at now. Harley's run very lean out of the factory. Not rich. but doesn't knocking out the baffles sometimes cause a need for re-jetting? Only on high tech reliable motors, he has a HarleyYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #17 August 8, 2007 Best bet would be to grab a used lawn mower engine and slap in there. You'll notice an instant improvement in horse power, torque, and reliablilty . Just givin' ya some shit, man. Your best bet is to run it on a dyno and get a base curve done. It will give you a visual of your air/fuel ratio throughout the power curve and it'll will help you select the proper jetting. Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #18 August 8, 2007 QuoteTotally disagree....and the power commander is the hottest, leanest tuner available. I took one off my last sled as it was running the motor WAYYYY hot. Quote The only way a Power Commander is causing a bike to run too lean is if it's faulty or programmed incorrectly. The Power Commander runs as a slave to the ECU and simply adds or subtracts fuel based on the map that you've loaded into its memory. You can even program it to add or subtract fuel to each individual cylinder if you so desire. It's a proven product that works extremely well. Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #19 August 8, 2007 Quote Just givin' ya some shit, man. Your best bet is to run it on a dyno and get a base curve done. It will give you a visual of your air/fuel ratio throughout the power curve and it'll will help you select the proper jetting. It's a Carbie driven 883 sporty, unless you get the Dyno done for beer or free that's good money after bad. It's nothing close to a performance engine, have a decent mechanic do the next service and it should be sorted.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zee 0 #20 August 8, 2007 Quote Quote Just givin' ya some shit, man. Your best bet is to run it on a dyno and get a base curve done. It will give you a visual of your air/fuel ratio throughout the power curve and it'll will help you select the proper jetting. It's a Carbie driven 883 sporty, unless you get the Dyno done for beer or free that's good money after bad. It's nothing close to a performance engine, have a decent mechanic do the next service and it should be sorted. I'm almost ashamed to admit it but, I used to have one. Dynos aren't just for performance engines. They run the giant ever so powerful 1450cc 63Hp Hardley V-Twins on those things all day long. It just helps you select the correct jets and saves you the hassle of takin' the carbs apart every time you want to try a new set of needles... Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #21 August 8, 2007 Quote Quote throughout the power curve and it'll will help you select the proper jetting. It's a Carbie driven 883 sporty, unless you get the Dyno done for beer or free that's good money after bad. It's nothing close to a performance engine, have a decent mechanic do the next service and it should be sorted. I'm almost ashamed to admit it but, I used to have one. Dynos aren't just for performance engines. They run the giant every so powerful 1450cc 63Hp Hardley V-Twins on those things all day long. It just helps you select the correct jets and saves you the hassle of takin' the carbs apart every time you want to try a new set of needles... What's it cost to sort a bike out on a dyno in the UK and States, here it will run you a couple of hundred bucks plus any parts and labourYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zee 0 #22 August 8, 2007 Ahh, that's a bit steep. I get a base curve done for $35 at the local shop.... Forgot to add that is only for the base curve. I had a custom map made for my 1KRR after some exhaust and engine mods it ran about $300 Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sabre97 0 #23 August 8, 2007 Here in Wisconsin they charge about $40 for a base line curve. I must also agree on the Power Commander. It all depends on the shop that does the work. Had a 103 big bore put in my Road King. Was running way too rich. Took the bike to a difference dealer and found out they messed up and mapped the Power Commander wrong. Since the fix, I'm thrilled. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 858 #24 August 8, 2007 I still prefer the race tuner...no slave nothing...just re=program the stock to anything I needs! I would agree that your average average joe is prolly better off with one..they can use the canned config files based on the parts they install - if they don't care to spring for the dyno run. There's nothing inherently wrong with the product, I just feel there are better products out there. Anybody play with the "auto-tuning" units that are out now? They say you don't need a dyno run with them.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zee 0 #25 August 8, 2007 QuoteHere in Wisconsin they charge about $40 for a base line curve. I must also agree on the Power Commander. It all depends on the shop that does the work. Had a 103 big bore put in my Road King. Was running way too rich. Took the bike to a difference dealer and found out they messed up and mapped the Power Commander wrong. Since the fix, I'm thrilled. Every map you find on Dynojet's website that was created by their "Master Tuner" runs rich. That's just a safety net so you can't blame them when you make the mixture too lean and roast your engine. If your bike is equipped with a P.A.I.R valve and the shop is too lazy to disable it, you'll end up with a map that's way rich too. Even after having my custom map made I leaned it out more than 5% across the rev range - been running it like that both on the street and on the track for nearly 20,000 miles without so much as a hickup. As far as race tuners go, sure, they adjust the stock programming in the ECU but the difference in price is quite significant. Depending up what kind of bike you're running you might have to call Dan Kyle and buy a specific Race ECU for your bike at a cost of nearly $500 and you lose lots of functions from your stock ECU like the automatic fan, kill switches for the kickstand, and the ability to start your bike while in gear. And then if you want to program the thing yourself you'll need the additional $350 CD and cable. A Power Commander costs under $300 and the end results are not enough justify the cost unless you're buliding a pure race machine. The TuneBoy is pretty cool cuz it allows you to completely reprogram the stock ECU and only costs a few bucks more than a Power Commander but, it only works on Triumphs. Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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Squeak 17 #19 August 8, 2007 Quote Just givin' ya some shit, man. Your best bet is to run it on a dyno and get a base curve done. It will give you a visual of your air/fuel ratio throughout the power curve and it'll will help you select the proper jetting. It's a Carbie driven 883 sporty, unless you get the Dyno done for beer or free that's good money after bad. It's nothing close to a performance engine, have a decent mechanic do the next service and it should be sorted.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #20 August 8, 2007 Quote Quote Just givin' ya some shit, man. Your best bet is to run it on a dyno and get a base curve done. It will give you a visual of your air/fuel ratio throughout the power curve and it'll will help you select the proper jetting. It's a Carbie driven 883 sporty, unless you get the Dyno done for beer or free that's good money after bad. It's nothing close to a performance engine, have a decent mechanic do the next service and it should be sorted. I'm almost ashamed to admit it but, I used to have one. Dynos aren't just for performance engines. They run the giant ever so powerful 1450cc 63Hp Hardley V-Twins on those things all day long. It just helps you select the correct jets and saves you the hassle of takin' the carbs apart every time you want to try a new set of needles... Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #21 August 8, 2007 Quote Quote throughout the power curve and it'll will help you select the proper jetting. It's a Carbie driven 883 sporty, unless you get the Dyno done for beer or free that's good money after bad. It's nothing close to a performance engine, have a decent mechanic do the next service and it should be sorted. I'm almost ashamed to admit it but, I used to have one. Dynos aren't just for performance engines. They run the giant every so powerful 1450cc 63Hp Hardley V-Twins on those things all day long. It just helps you select the correct jets and saves you the hassle of takin' the carbs apart every time you want to try a new set of needles... What's it cost to sort a bike out on a dyno in the UK and States, here it will run you a couple of hundred bucks plus any parts and labourYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #22 August 8, 2007 Ahh, that's a bit steep. I get a base curve done for $35 at the local shop.... Forgot to add that is only for the base curve. I had a custom map made for my 1KRR after some exhaust and engine mods it ran about $300 Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabre97 0 #23 August 8, 2007 Here in Wisconsin they charge about $40 for a base line curve. I must also agree on the Power Commander. It all depends on the shop that does the work. Had a 103 big bore put in my Road King. Was running way too rich. Took the bike to a difference dealer and found out they messed up and mapped the Power Commander wrong. Since the fix, I'm thrilled. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 858 #24 August 8, 2007 I still prefer the race tuner...no slave nothing...just re=program the stock to anything I needs! I would agree that your average average joe is prolly better off with one..they can use the canned config files based on the parts they install - if they don't care to spring for the dyno run. There's nothing inherently wrong with the product, I just feel there are better products out there. Anybody play with the "auto-tuning" units that are out now? They say you don't need a dyno run with them.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #25 August 8, 2007 QuoteHere in Wisconsin they charge about $40 for a base line curve. I must also agree on the Power Commander. It all depends on the shop that does the work. Had a 103 big bore put in my Road King. Was running way too rich. Took the bike to a difference dealer and found out they messed up and mapped the Power Commander wrong. Since the fix, I'm thrilled. Every map you find on Dynojet's website that was created by their "Master Tuner" runs rich. That's just a safety net so you can't blame them when you make the mixture too lean and roast your engine. If your bike is equipped with a P.A.I.R valve and the shop is too lazy to disable it, you'll end up with a map that's way rich too. Even after having my custom map made I leaned it out more than 5% across the rev range - been running it like that both on the street and on the track for nearly 20,000 miles without so much as a hickup. As far as race tuners go, sure, they adjust the stock programming in the ECU but the difference in price is quite significant. Depending up what kind of bike you're running you might have to call Dan Kyle and buy a specific Race ECU for your bike at a cost of nearly $500 and you lose lots of functions from your stock ECU like the automatic fan, kill switches for the kickstand, and the ability to start your bike while in gear. And then if you want to program the thing yourself you'll need the additional $350 CD and cable. A Power Commander costs under $300 and the end results are not enough justify the cost unless you're buliding a pure race machine. The TuneBoy is pretty cool cuz it allows you to completely reprogram the stock ECU and only costs a few bucks more than a Power Commander but, it only works on Triumphs. Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
