BillPaine 0 #1 July 24, 2006 As you may recall in our last exciting episode…my right leg strap was slipping on my brand new Talon FS rig (up to six inches when I was on my back in the sit-fly recovery position). I had the buckles on the leg straps replaced last weekend and did the same jump. This time the right leg strap only slipped about an inch. On examination, the knurled area on the right buckle was not as "rough" as it should be. As such, it wasn't gripping the strap as well as it could. Apparently, this part is cast (as distinct from being machined manually) so I suppose it's reasonable to expect anomalies. So if you're leg straps are slipping you may also want to consider getting the buckles replaced. It seems to have provided the solution in this case at least."We have met the enemy...and he is us." Pogo www.mondo-fiasco.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #2 July 24, 2006 Send that container back to the manufacturer and ask them to replace the buckles with the proper hard ware. They should have no problem with it. My first Javelin pulled this same crap. I'd deploy, then i'd slip another 4 or 5 inches....scary stuff. Only the left buckle though.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillPaine 0 #3 July 24, 2006 It was actually the manufacturer who replaced the buckles for me at the weekend."We have met the enemy...and he is us." Pogo www.mondo-fiasco.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #4 July 24, 2006 "Cast?" I was under the impression that most parachute hardware was forged. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,358 #5 July 24, 2006 Hi Rob, QuoteI was under the impression that most parachute hardware was forged. Well, some are merely bent (most chest strap hardware). I know of none that are cast. The 'nodules' could be forged in, pressed in while hot, or could be machined in. I really do not know. Cast??? I'm with you; never seen any hardware for parachutes cast. I've seen lots for other industries, though. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggermick 7 #6 July 24, 2006 QuoteAs you may recall in our last exciting episode…my right leg strap was slipping on my brand new Talon FS rig (up to six inches when I was on my back in the sit-fly recovery position). I had the buckles on the leg straps replaced last weekend and did the same jump. This time the right leg strap only slipped about an inch. On examination, the knurled area on the right buckle was not as "rough" as it should be. As such, it wasn't gripping the strap as well as it could. Apparently, this part is cast (as distinct from being machined manually) so I suppose it's reasonable to expect anomalies. So if you're leg straps are slipping you may also want to consider getting the buckles replaced. It seems to have provided the solution in this case at least. Sometimes too much cadmium plating ends up in the "grip surface" making the diamond pattern smoother and therefore less efficiant. The slide bar (grip surface) is not cast, it is forged seperatly from the main body of the hardware and introduced while the main body is being forged. Cast ANYTHING has a grain flow like wood (all in the same direction)and consequently will have crossectional weak spots. Forging by contrast has a grain flow that follows the direction of the material and offers no crossectional weak points. That's why we use forged hardware in the parachute industry. Mick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillPaine 0 #7 July 24, 2006 Sorry guys. I've obviously got it wrong. I've just spoken with the manufacturer and the buckles are indeed forged...not cast. My mistake."We have met the enemy...and he is us." Pogo www.mondo-fiasco.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendragon 1 #8 July 25, 2006 Do you have a bungee cord between your leg straps? If not, you should do.-- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillPaine 0 #9 July 25, 2006 Yep. Sure do. But I must confess that I'm not entirely comfortable with the concept of having to use a bungee in the first place. It strikes me as cheap and nasty solution to a basic design flaw in the harness. I know this system has been in place for some time but I'd like to know if there are any harnesses out there that don't require bits of elastic to keep the leg straps correctly located in free-flight. Similarly, I've been surprised to learn that leg strap slippage is not as uncommon as I first thought. Surely it's not unreasonable to expect the buckles to firmly grip the leg straps and hold them in place regardless of what position I'm flying in."We have met the enemy...and he is us." Pogo www.mondo-fiasco.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 164 #10 July 25, 2006 I have seen one individual with a friction "aide" available as a retrofit to most leg strap hardware. Called "RECTANGULAR FRICTION LOCK" (Paragear Item: H345) I tried them on my last rig for a while and they did keep things from sliding. While I have not heard anything against them, I would be curious if the old timers here have anything negative to say about them... JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillPaine 0 #11 July 25, 2006 I've just checked it out on the ParaGear website. I suppose my only concern would be how easy it would be to remove these friction locks in a hurry in the event of a water landing (for example). My DZ is close to a number of large lakes (not that I expect to land in them but shit happens). I think I'll get a couple regardless and see how they go. Thanks for the info."We have met the enemy...and he is us." Pogo www.mondo-fiasco.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 164 #12 July 26, 2006 QuoteI've just checked it out on the ParaGear website. I suppose my only concern would be how easy it would be to remove these friction locks in a hurry in the event of a water landing (for example). My DZ is close to a number of large lakes (not that I expect to land in them but shit happens). I think I'll get a couple regardless and see how they go. Thanks for the info. My recollection is that they are more difficult to loosen in all situations. All things have their good and bad points... you might try them, but be VERY aware of your EP's and how this (or any equipment change) affects them. JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NancyJ 11 #13 July 27, 2006 The route cause of leg strap slippage is the webbing selection. The hardware (forged) was originally designed for cotton webbing back in the 40's. Nylon came along and Type 13 (Black edge trace) was designed for use with the existing hardware. Type 13 doesn't slip with unworn personel hardware. Type 7(Yellow edge trace) is cheaper and less strong than Type 13 and it will slip in the original hardware. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #14 July 27, 2006 Cheaply finished stainless versions of the hardware are to blame.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggermick 7 #15 July 27, 2006 QuoteThe route cause of leg strap slippage is the webbing selection. The hardware (forged) was originally designed for cotton webbing back in the 40's. Nylon came along and Type 13 (Black edge trace) was designed for use with the existing hardware. Type 13 doesn't slip with unworn personel hardware. Type 7(Yellow edge trace) is cheaper and less strong than Type 13 and it will slip in the original hardware. I thought, according to your representatives that you did not have time for such triffrling things such as browsing this forum? Care to answer some questions previously posed to you regarding the speed bag? Btw the strength issue between T7 and T13 is kind of moot as a person wound be killed from the resulting shock load of an opening hard enough to snap webbing. Plus it's very rare for a harness to fail, just look at the sheer number of T7/ T7 combo harnesses out there vs T13 harnesses. The bodies just are'nt pling up like they are for open canopy fatalities. Mick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #16 July 30, 2006 QuoteThe route cause of leg strap slippage is the webbing selection. The hardware (forged) was originally designed for cotton webbing back in the 40's. Nylon came along and Type 13 (Black edge trace) was designed for use with the existing hardware. Type 13 doesn't slip with unworn personel hardware. Type 7(Yellow edge trace) is cheaper and less strong than Type 13 and it will slip in the original hardware. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How about all the slippage and "fuzzy" Type 13 webbing on old Bullets and Sidewinders? Hee! Hee! The point I am trying to make is that no piece of webbing can be expected to last forever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
