Did the flight attendant go too far?

[waltappel 1]

Quote

I think the same rules should apply to Small Children and Dogs at the DZ. Keep them on a leash and out of the Hangar.

I hate it when people treat dogs like that.

Walt

[normiss 851]

Places children are unwanted:
commercial airliners
drop zones
restaurants

Walt wants to add porno shops and bars.


While I don't frequent porno shops and would never bring my children there I could care less what happens there. I also don't visit bars very often and would also not take my children there. I have very well mannered well behaving children that I take most places within reason. On the few occasions one of them comes with me, they're never on the dz after sunset, you kidding? They've always been well behaved in restaurants otherwise we wouldn't have gone...wait a minute...I've always been a responsible PARENT and raised my kids properly (amazingly enough!) and THAT'S the problem!
The complete lack of discipline and concern/respect for others is the largest issue in public today. We're all paying for it...but insisting on refusing access in public places is not the answer. It will completely miss teaching them how to behave in such environments as adults. at least IMO anyway

what do I know?

not much....

[Remster 30]

Quote

I think the same rules should apply to Small Children and Dogs at the DZ. Keep them on a leash and out of the Hangar.

I once had a great idea (yes, really! ). DZ's should build play pen for kids. I'm thinking a 8' x 8' shed 1/2 filled with those balls. A trap opening on top which allows only 1 way access inside the shed. Throw the kids in there when you get to the DZ, and at sunset, the door gets opened to let the parents pick the kids up and leave.

Now, I know some of you will say this is inhumane. That is why I would also add sprinklers on a 1 hour timer, to keep them cool, and wash off pee...

Remster

[Icon134 0]

Quote

Quote

I think the same rules should apply to Small Children and Dogs at the DZ. Keep them on a leash and out of the Hangar.

I hate it when people treat dogs like that.

ok then Crate them in a nice shady cool place...

fwiw: even at almost 3 years old I still regularly Crate Karma during the day when I'm at work... her Crate is her den and it is a safe place that she can go to not be bothered (she often "hides" in her crate when I do things like vacuuming, if she knows I'm going to clip her nails, clean her ears, etc...)

If/when I take Karma to a dropzone I will wear her out in the morning by either running her or throwing a ball for her for a while... and she will generally sleep the rest of the day...

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[keka 0]

Quote

I think the same rules should apply to Small Children and Dogs at the DZ. Keep them on a leash and out of the Hangar.

xactly!

I saw an interview with the mother in on of these morning shows and the child would not stop and was taken out of the set.
if your child does not behave, it's your fault on and lack of education.
I know some of them are little devils but I think I would have done the same thing.
I know that must be hard to control a situation where the child won't stop crying... maybe b/c his ears hurt, or stomach... or whatever... but a kid that is simply not behaving when the mother tells him to stop needs a bit of punishment (no hitting... I don't like that).

it all comes with a good talk, and yes, it works.
I was raised like this and only got 1 butt snap from my dad and 1 from my mom my whole life; and so did my brother.

http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org
PMS#551
I love my life :)

[jenfly00 0]

Quote

Quote

when are we going to start banning black people from drop zones? asians? anybody else we don't like so we can create our own perfect environments????



welcome to planet earth people...it aint all nice and perfect.

Does it upset you that people can't take their kids to bars or porno shops?

Dropzones are an *adult* playground and at many dropzones there are *adult* activities that take place--particularly after sunset. It's about *age*, not skin color or religion or anything else.

Also, if a jumper brings their kid(s) to the dropzone, leaving the kid(s) on the ground while they jump, who is supervising them? Jumpers have thousands of dollars with of lifesaving equipment laying around and don't want anyone tampering with it.

Walt

I don't mind skydivers bringing their kids (well supervised) to the DZ. It's when they insist we conform to their 'family atmosphere' that I draw the line.

-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[waltappel 1]

I suppose I should add that I really don't have any problem with kids at the DZ as long as they are supervised. DZs are pretty big places and it's really easy to move around. That's not the case in airplanes and (to some extent) restaurants.

Restricting access in some cases really does cutoff opportunities for parents to teach their kids how to behave in those environments and the parents who actually *care* about their kids' behaviors are being penalized because of the many parents who *don't* seem to care. It's not fair.

I'm sure most DZs have no problems having kids around as long as they are supervised. I'm just as sure that it is a very rare restaurant that does not welcome kids.

Back to the planes, though. It's a confined space. People with kids need to control them. The lady who got kicked off the flight along with her kid really showed the world what the real problem was on that show you posted the link to. That was an adult show and that kid absolutely took over within a couple of minutes. I think it was clear that the lady can't or won't control her kid.

Walt

[waltappel 1]

Quote

I don't mind skydivers bringing their kids (well supervised) to the DZ. It's when they insist we conform to their 'family atmosphere' that I draw the line.

That's a good point but how about giving some examples? If they want to stop anyone from wild partying at night, that's screwed up. The only thing I can think of that happens during the day, though, is foul language.

My nature is to have a garbage mouth but I usually try and watch what I say around kids and older people and I don't think that's a burden.

Walt

[wildblue 7]

Quote

Quote

I think the same rules should apply to Small Children and Dogs at the DZ. Keep them on a leash and out of the Hangar.

I once had a great idea (yes, really! ). DZ's should build play pen for kids. I'm thinking a 8' x 8' shed 1/2 filled with those balls. A trap opening on top which allows only 1 way access inside the shed. Throw the kids in there when you get to the DZ, and at sunset, the door gets opened to let the parents pick the kids up and leave.

Now, I know some of you will say this is inhumane. That is why I would also add sprinklers on a 1 hour timer, to keep them cool, and wash off pee...

Brilliant. Do you need a financial backer?

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[normiss 851]

in total agreement Walt.
after seeing the video I, too, thought the woman had some parental challenges that she just isn't up to yet. I get infuriated when I see that type of parenting - or is it lack of?

and the language at drop zones, or any other adult environment we expose children to, we as parents should realize that and weigh that in deciding whether to bring them along or not. I thought there was an age of the kids and maturity as well that was figured into where they could go with me. My youngest is now 13, and two grown ones that go where the hell they want to (damnit) so my view is also based on that ... they aren't "children" per say.

these are the same kids that tolerated my hard core biker buddies at their birthday parties when they were little as well. THAT was entertaining!

[kbordson 8]

She does seem to have some difficulty with him during that interview. I could see how she likely didn't have control of him during the flight. But... I still think the stewardess was out of line in turning the flight around for the sake of a power play.

[livendive 8]

Regarding kids at dropzones, last night was the third Sunday in a row I've found myself cleaning up Lego's that children had been playing with that had not been put away. It doesn't take long, or much effort, so I guess it's just a pet peeve. I think parents who bring children to the dz should make prior arrangements for supervision and should clean up after their kids. I also agree with the "don't expect the atmosphere to adopt to your kids" sentiment. When there are kids around, I'll make reasonable efforts to watch my language, but if something slips and your kid hears it, it's not my fault for saying it, it's your fault for putting the child in an environment where swearing is known to happen frequently. If a parent is afraid of their child hearing occasional swear words, they shouldn't take them where such words are known to fly. By the same token, if there's a child around, it doesn't hurt to put a little extra effort into using polite alternatives for obscenities.

There was a positive development as a result of this incident. As of this past weekend, my exit count has been improved from "Ready, set, go" to "Bye, bye, plane!"

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[bozo 0]

Quote

Regarding kids at dropzones,When there are kids around, I'll make reasonable efforts to watch my language, but if something slips and your kid hears it, it's not my fault for saying it, it's your fault for putting the child in an environment where swearing is known to happen frequently. If a parent is afraid of their child hearing occasional swear words, they shouldn't take them where such words are known to fly.
Dave

When my daughter...who grew up on the DZ....was in second grade I received a call from her teacher for a conference. When she and I got there the teacher informed me that Bethany refused to spell a word in class. Well what was the word....it was "duck'. Bethany said daddy told her never to say that word thats how all the skydivers talked and she wasnt allowed to.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[waltappel 1]

Quote

She does seem to have some difficulty with him during that interview. I could see how she likely didn't have control of him during the flight. But... I still think the stewardess was out of line in turning the flight around for the sake of a power play.

I think you are giving waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much credit to the flight attendant. No way does *any* flight attendant have that authority. That is a call for the pilot-in-command and you can bet that the pilot would not have done unless he felt there was good reason. They don't like running late any more than passengers do.

I think the media has intentionally left out the facts that would that the scenario was more than a poor-victimized-mother-and-child vs. evil-flight-attendant story. The media really got some people stirred up. The discussion in this thread is a perfect example. I'd bet that if all the facts were presented, though, then the media who reported the incident would look *far* worse than the flight attendant. The mother has already exposed herself as an incompetent parent.

Walt

[BillyVance 34]

Quote

There was a positive development as a result of this incident. As of this past weekend, my exit count has been improved from "Ready, set, go" to "Bye, bye, plane!"

I might be using that count on my jumps this weekend just for shits and giggles...

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[kbordson 8]

Quote

Quote

She does seem to have some difficulty with him during that interview. I could see how she likely didn't have control of him during the flight. But... I still think the stewardess was out of line in turning the flight around for the sake of a power play.

I think you are giving waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much credit to the flight attendant. No way does *any* flight attendant have that authority. That is a call for the pilot-in-command and you can bet that the pilot would not have done unless he felt there was good reason. They don't like running late any more than passengers do.

I think the media has intentionally left out the facts that would that the scenario was more than a poor-victimized-mother-and-child vs. evil-flight-attendant story. The media really got some people stirred up. The discussion in this thread is a perfect example. I'd bet that if all the facts were presented, though, then the media who reported the incident would look *far* worse than the flight attendant. The mother has already exposed herself as an incompetent parent.

Walt

Per that interview... the mother stated that the reason that the plane was turned around was because the stew told the captain that the woman had threatened her. And... if she falsely stated that, she should lose her job and be charge with ... I don't know.... something. It seems to me that there was a power play there. The stew may have "won" but didn't play fair.

[waltappel 1]

Quote

Per that interview... the mother stated that the reason that the plane was turned around was because the stew told the captain that the woman had threatened her. And... if she falsely stated that, she should lose her job and be charge with ... I don't know.... something. It seems to me that there was a power play there. The stew may have "won" but didn't play fair.

That is a situation where *someone* needs to be held accountable. It the flight attendant lied, she needs to answer for that. If the mother lied or exagerrated by saying the flight attendant lied, then that should be known.

That's a serious accusation and not one to be played around with.

Walt

[kbordson 8]

Quote

That's a serious accusation and not one to be played around with.

Walt

Exactly my thoughts

[ACMESkydiver 0]

Quote

Quote

She does seem to have some difficulty with him during that interview. I could see how she likely didn't have control of him during the flight. But... I still think the stewardess was out of line in turning the flight around for the sake of a power play.

I think you are giving waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much credit to the flight attendant. No way does *any* flight attendant have that authority. That is a call for the pilot-in-command and you can bet that the pilot would not have done unless he felt there was good reason. They don't like running late any more than passengers do.

Come on Walt...the pilot couldn't have heard the 18 month old talking from inside the cockpit. He turned around because he was told by the flight attendent that there was a passenger causing problems.

Sure it was his final word...but what do you think the FA said to him? I'm kinda doubting that she told him a toddler was saying, "Bye bye, plane" and that it was causing a dangerous flight situation and he should turn around. I'm betting he thought that he was turning around to avoid an unruly passenger or something a little more sinister that was posing a danger.

As I mentioned in a post somewhere in this thread, I get annoyed pretty fast with parents that do not discipline their kids. I was raised in a very strict Catholic home and we toed the mark (up until those late teenager years when 2 of the 3 of us became complete jackasses until we moved out ). It fries me to see moms and dads that WON'T require good behavior from their kids that are completely mentally capable of it.

(I don't feel right taking credit for our daughter's incredible behavior, however...I have no idea how that beautiful girl emerged from our chaos. I think God said, "I guess they deserve a break". )


Oh and to Dave above....I LOVE the new count!! I'm gonna say that when I get in the air again.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[waltappel 1]

I don't know what the flight attendant said, but I want to see the *whole* story--not just the media-spun drama.

Walt

[shropshire 0]

<>

Just make sure that you wait 'till you are at altitude before saying, or you could get thrown out early!!

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Icon134 0]

Quote

Quote

There was a positive development as a result of this incident. As of this past weekend, my exit count has been improved from "Ready, set, go" to "Bye, bye, plane!"

I might be using that count on my jumps this weekend just for shits and giggles...

I do like that count... I don't usually have the count but I do like it...

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[McBeth 0]

Quote

I think the same rules should apply to Small Children and Dogs at the DZ. Keep them on a leash and out of the Hangar.

Can we keep you on a leash?

[Thanatos340 1]

Quote

Can we keep you on a leash?

Only if you are going to Powder my bottom and breast feed me occasionally too.

[Remster 30]

Quote

Quote

Can we keep you on a leash?

Only if you are going to Powder my bottom and breast feed me occasionally too.

Just for you J: www.adultbabies.com

Remster