Car Mechanics??? Honda peeps

[simplyputsi 0]

I'm taking my 2000 civic SI into the shop tomorrow for a few things and wanted to see if anyone can give me a heads up as to what may be wrong.

Had timing belt package done about 6 months ago. This changes the timing belt, as well as all other belts in the engine.

I changed the spark plugs about 3 months after.

The problem I'm having is that when you get around 5 to 6 thousand rpm's and are giving it about 3/4 to full gas there is a obvious ticking noise coming from the engine. I've had 2 people listen and one has no idea, but says not good, another says it sounds like something might be slapping, like a belt against something.
I have no idea.

Also, ever since the timing belt change my top end just has felt like it's missing it's power. I can hammer it and nothing really happens, whereas before I could hammer it and it made a difference.

Yes the car has 100,000 miles on it, but it was running just fine.

Is it possible the timing could be messing everything up??

Skymama's #2 stalker -

[bozo 0]

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The problem I'm having is that when you get around 5 to 6 thousand rpm's and are giving it about 3/4 to full gas there is a obvious ticking noise coming from the engine.

Is it possible the timing could be messing everything up??

It sounds like your timing is off and under excelleration youre getting a ping from the cylinders.
Its very common when messing with timing.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Had timing belt package done about 6 months ago. This changes the timing belt, as well as all other belts in the engine.

I changed the spark plugs about 3 months after.

Also, ever since the timing belt change my top end just has felt like it's missing it's power. I can hammer it and nothing really happens, whereas before I could hammer it and it made a difference.

Bring the mechanic in the car with you when you drive it. Insist on it. I think it's a combination of timing, and I'd double check that you used the correct spark-plug (spacing etc).

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[simplyputsi 0]

That is the plan, to have the mechanic in the car so that he hears what I hear and knows when it does it. I already set that up.
I did check the spacing on the spark plugs when I installed them, they were right. I really don't think it's a spark plug issue from how loud the tick is, but what do I know.

I found something on a car mechanic site that said the timing belt could have been installed wrong. I'm totally not paying for them to check that, if that is what is wrong, but we'll see. I just want my car to run right again.

Skymama's #2 stalker -

[Gawain 0]

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That is the plan, to have the mechanic in the car so that he hears what I hear and knows when it does it. I already set that up.
I did check the spacing on the spark plugs when I installed them, they were right. I really don't think it's a spark plug issue from how loud the tick is, but what do I know.

I found something on a car mechanic site that said the timing belt could have been installed wrong. I'm totally not paying for them to check that, if that is what is wrong, but we'll see. I just want my car to run right again.

When the timing belt is done, they also should have replaced the water-pump. Is the "shop" you're going to a dealer, or a different place. Hope they warrant their work if it's not the dealer.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[simplyputsi 0]

it was the dealer and I do believe the water pump was changed. I'll ask tomorrow.

They should work with me if it is something to do with the timing. We'll see though.

Skymama's #2 stalker -

[Gawain 0]

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it was the dealer and I do believe the water pump was changed. I'll ask tomorrow.

They should work with me if it is something to do with the timing. We'll see though.

If it's the dealer you should be in good shape. The dealer service was one of the reasons why I enjoyed owning my Hondas.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[yardhippie 0]

A good shop should have "insisted" you change the water pump. Why? Piece of mind and prevention of redundant work. Ive done a few and not replaced em. eventually, it will fail and you have to do all that work all over again just to get to the water pump.

They may have got the belt on properly and didnt time the engine properly. If they didnt adjust the timing at all, and this has happened, most likely the belt COULD be a tooth off in the advanced direction.

The ticking youre hearing could be detonation, meaning the spark plug is firing too early. Left unchecked it can cause problems.

If its a good shop, tell em everything you've done, and how it changed, they should get you fixed right up.

Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD
"What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me
"Anything you want." ~ female skydiver
Mohoso Rodriguez #865

[floridadiver81 0]

Its your timing. I had a 93 prelude. We had to replace the front main seal and the cam seals. We did that...got eveything back together. FOr a week straight my car ran sluggish as hell. It was severly out of timing. I got it over to my buddy's house hat has a timing gun. Normal honda timing is supposed to be 16. Min was at 9!!!!! Yeah..really bad. So we craked the timing cover off and noticed that the cam gears were two teeth off. So we fixed that. Put everythign back together. That put me ar 14 timing. tapped the distributor a few times..bam,,,back on 16 running like a champ.

"Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie
"Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye

[simplyputsi 0]

did you get a ticking noise though under hard accleration??


I'll make sure I mention everything hippie. And just in case, what exactly would not having changed the water pump have to do with things? I really think they did though.

Skymama's #2 stalker -

[floridadiver81 0]

it ticked at low rpm...then after 5 grand it sounded like it was about ready to bog out.

"Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie
"Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye

[Conundrum 1]

Sounds like you might be getting some detonation, but without hearing the noise it's hard to know.

You could always put your car on a dyno and rev it up to 5,6 thousand and see if you can replicate the noise while the hood is open. MIght help you pinpoint exactly where it's coming from.

[yardhippie 0]

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did you get a ticking noise though under hard accleration??


I'll make sure I mention everything hippie. And just in case, what exactly would not having changed the water pump have to do with things? I really think they did though.

The water pump has nothing to do with your performance issues, unless it stops working and your engine is getting hot. I was just mentioning why the H20 pump get repalced on Hondas when you change the timing belt. Its behind all that crap, might as well do it since you done all the work to get that far.


My speculation that is based purly on the fact that I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night: the timing belt is a tooth off (advanced), causing the valves and distributor to be ahead of the rotating group (pistons, rods, crank). If thats the case, just correcting the issue should clear ya right up.

Good luck.

Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD
"What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me
"Anything you want." ~ female skydiver
Mohoso Rodriguez #865

[floridadiver81 0]

Quote

My speculation that is based purly on the fact that I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night: the timing belt is a tooth off (advanced), causing the valves and distributor to be ahead of the rotating group (pistons, rods, crank). If thats the case, just correcting the issue should clear ya right up.

Good luck.

Exactly what i said

"Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie
"Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye

[simplyputsi 0]

if the timing is off though, then why does it run pretty much jim dandy in the low rmps, below 5 grand??

is that normal??

I used to pay attention to car stuff, but I just lost interest. ughh.

don't lie hippy, you didn't stay in the holiday inn express!!!

Skymama's #2 stalker -

[floridadiver81 0]

it depends on which directiong the timing is off. If its retarded then it will effect the lower rpm range. If its advanced then it will affect the higher rpm range. My problem was it was advanced....making the higher rpm's sluggish, which i think is the same problem you are having, just not as sever as mine were!

"Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie
"Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye

[Gawain 0]

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if the timing is off though, then why does it run pretty much jim dandy in the low rmps, below 5 grand??

is that normal??

Likely due to the VTEC settings in the engine. The 2000 Si has a screamer of an engine, at about 5500-6000 rpm, the engine goes from Dr. Jekyl to Mr. Hyde.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[floridadiver81 0]

Quote

Likely due to the VTEC settings in the engine. The 2000 Si has a screamer of an engine, at about 5500-6000 rpm, the engine goes from Dr. Jekyl to Mr. Hyde.

You are right in saying that VTEC is like jekyl and Hyde.
In a vtec head there are 2 profiles. One set the lobes are factory specs. The second profile they are advanced..meaning the lobes come down farther allowing for more air to flow intot he engine and for more exhaust to flow out...which is why you get that power boost when vtec engages. Although it doesnt have anything directly to do with the timing as long as the number one cylinder was at TDC when the timing was done after the work.

"Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie
"Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye

[simplyputsi 0]

Ok well I don't know if this is good or bad.

Word back from Honda is this. The timing is where it is supposed to be, the valves are fine, but the cold air intake I have is causing the engine to run rich which causes the vtec to kick in late and that is causing the ticking.

I tried to get it through to them that it's never done this and I've had the cold air intake pretty much since I got the car. I was told only way to get it to not run rich is to put the stock air filter back in. Seriously????
Cold air gives more power and better gas mileage, it's not the problem. I'm being told the timing is right.
I asked if it was a spark plug issue, got no you would have other issues, and we didn't get any codes for that.

I'm so frustrated. I'm glad they seem to think nothing is wrong, but then I'm not glad because I know something is wrong!!!!

Damnit!!!!!!!!

Skymama's #2 stalker -

[yardhippie 0]

Wow.
Firstly: cold air is more dense than warm, so the colder the air the more O2 in its makeup (assuming O2 has an equal distribution) The more O2 you can get into and engine the more fuel you can put in. (to a point). So, if all other things remain equal and you install a CAI (cold air intake), you have just put in MORE O2, thus leaning out the mixture.

Second: if all they were doing was looking for codes, you could be screwed. Just because a car is not throwing any codes, dont mean its not running improperly.

Third: the VTEC stuff is beyond me so all of the above may not apply. I'd search some forums for a good tuner. Someone who knows what changes need to be made for CAI, and other free-flowing mods.

Please do research before trying the following.
You could reset the ECU. Many ECU are "learning" units, yea they only "learn" within a set of parameters, but it is something. If you have a coded radio make sure you have the code!!!! Take off the negative and then positive battery cables. This is where i cant help much more, but on my old Mitsu you touched the positive and negative cable together and held for a few seconds. On my subie, you press and hold the brake pedal.

This clears all the info stored in the ECU, and you start from scratch. Problems following this can include:
1)Even worse performance as many ECU reset to a very conservative setting (fuel and timing mapping), until it "learns" your driving habits.
2)Failed emissions test if you dont get a week or two of driving on it.
3)Youve done all that, and nothing happens.

You best bet for best results see a good reputable tuner.

Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD
"What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me
"Anything you want." ~ female skydiver
Mohoso Rodriguez #865

[2fat2fly 0]

at cruise, set at 2300 rpm and 23" manifold pressure

I am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried

[yardhippie 0]

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at cruise, set at 2300 rpm and 23" manifold pressure

then fly away from Atlanta if Shane is headed that way!

Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD
"What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me
"Anything you want." ~ female skydiver
Mohoso Rodriguez #865

[2fat2fly 0]

Go ahead-treat me bad. I like your wife better anyway-she's nice

(where's a good "pout" emoticon?)

I am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried

[Katz 0]

Well, based on the info in this thread, we're taking my car to Emerald Coast!

PMS #330 MB #4014

"Be who you are and say what you feel...Because those that matter...don't mind...and those that mind...don't matter."

[simplyputsi 0]

ehhhh she runs and I'd trust her to get us there, but yeah, better off taking yours. You gots more room anyway.

Still can't get Honda back on the phone to discuss the fact that it's not the dang air filter!!!!

Skymama's #2 stalker -