All roads have wires

[DBCOOPER 5]

Learned that a long time ago flying helicopters NOE in the military.
Found this on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIbfxwZ19Eo&feature=youtu.be

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[Trafficdiver 8]

Shame he didn't land in the big field before the power lines.

[councilman24 37]

And I learned it in my first jump course.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[AlanS 1]

DBCOOPER

Learned that a long time ago flying helicopters NOE in the military.
Found this on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIbfxwZ19Eo&feature=youtu.be

OK. I try to learn something from every single thread.

Let's say you are in this guys situation. What do you do next?

[piisfish 140]

AlanS

Let's say you are in this guys situation. What do you do next?

update my Facebook status and change name to Sparky

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Squeak 17]

AlanS

***Learned that a long time ago flying helicopters NOE in the military.
Found this on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIbfxwZ19Eo&feature=youtu.be

OK. I try to learn something from every single thread.

Let's say you are in this guys situation. What do you do next?

Looks like he was tried to swoop between the trees on an OUT landing..


DONT, unless you know the area REALLY well

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[pchapman 279]

Doesn't look like he was trying to swoop between the trees.

More likely scenario is that for the outlanding, he turned over the end of the field to land 'back into the wind', and finds that with his setup, and perhaps winds having died down at dusk, he has a really flat glide ratio and is overshooting into the gap.

It doesn't seem like the 'swooped' in the sense of having any extra speed going into the gap or initial intention to go through it. He just set up too close in for a full speed landing into a limited landing area. At least that's my guess.

What could he have done?
Once he was deep on final and might have realized he was overshooting, I don't see a lot of good choices. Get deep in brakes -- which wouldn't kill the glide ratio tremendously in zero wind and a typical modern canopy -- and get ready to roll it out. Or turn and flare it into a tree crown.

The options of course get a little better the further back he is when he realizes the mistake. Easier to turn away or S-turn or flare-turn or something, and still land on something flat-ish.

(Edit: I've chosen to swoop under wires on a road during an outlanding at dusk... but only because I knew that road and the wire location already!)

[AtrusBatleth 0]

AlanS

Let's say you are in this guys situation. What do you do next?

What I was trained, sit tight, don't touch your reserve handle if it's metal, and wait for help, but warn anyone approaching (including DZ staff) not to come close until the utility people can be called in to ensure the power is cut. Keep in mind I'm a newbie, but that means my training is fresh in my head.

Max Peck
What's the point of having top secret code names, fellas, if we ain't gonna use 'em?

[virgin-burner 1]

get a dz-briefing first when you jump somewhere new? try to land in the MIDDLE of the field? try landing on the dz?

just a couple options..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[everytimeifly 0]

This was a balloon jump in the morning. (Not me in the video) So obviously off DZ landing. Obviously he missed one of the 2 fantastic landing areas on either side of the road. S turns or even a half braked 180 or approach would have fixed this. If you have never done a downwind PLF you haven't lived, am i right? I assume winds were light and variable as they look and it is morning time. I am not a fan of rears to clear an obstacle because that usually means you didn't plan well or decide early enough you were screwed. I can report all is well and good.

[sundevil777 102]

Quote

I don't see a lot of good choices. Get deep in brakes -- which wouldn't kill the glide ratio tremendously in zero wind and a typical modern canopy

I've seen comments like this a lot lately, and I understand the theory, but it sure doesn't work out that way in actual practice for me. I don't have to get very deep in the brakes to significantly affect the distance I would cover. This is with a Pilot at about 1.15 WL.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[riggerrob 643]

Judging from the OP video, buddy missed all 3 open field within striking distance. An earlier turn into the wind would have put him in the open field past the trees and wires.

[dorbie 0]

I'm starting to wonder it the low turn = death mantra is actually creating a problem.

[jakee 1,489]

dorbie

I'm starting to wonder it the low turn = death mantra is actually creating a problem.

If it is taught as a mantra, yeah, which is a shame as there's so much more information out there! BV's downsizing checklist is well over a decade old now and point #1 is to be able to flat turn 90 degrees and point #2 is be able to flare turn 45 degrees.

Anyone who simply uses "don't turn low!!11!" as a subsitute for actually learning/teaching real canopy skills is being lazy and counterproductive.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jhh166 0]

sundevil777

Quote

I don't see a lot of good choices. Get deep in brakes -- which wouldn't kill the glide ratio tremendously in zero wind and a typical modern canopy

I've seen comments like this a lot lately, and I understand the theory, but it sure doesn't work out that way in actual practice for me. I don't have to get very deep in the brakes to significantly affect the distance I would cover. This is with a Pilot at about 1.15 WL.

I remember someone referencing a L&B article a few years back. Where they stated brake input only increases your exposure to the wind line not your true glide. So with no wind, you would land in the exact same spot, however it would take a little longer to get there. If you have a head wind and apply toggles, you slow your descent rate and get more exposure to the head wind - this is what alters your glide path (or downwind). This is assuming the toggle input was held all the way to the ground. Most people resume full flight at some point before landing when practicing, obviously diving the canopy will alter the glide path as well.

I did notice you said you understand the concept. I was just elaborating for any others out there.

Also anyone, if I am wrong please speak up. I would still be using the 45° rule if it was not for dz forum banter.

[jakee 1,489]

Quote

Also anyone, if I am wrong please speak up.

Yep, I don't buy it. For sure, different wind conditions can massively change how control inputs affect your glide relative to the ground and you have to know about that.

However, the idea that a given canopy has the same steady state L/D ratio at any brake position? Nope, don't buy that for a second.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jhh166 0]

I respect that. To be honest I have tried to verify this as well but there are always too many variables involved ie. wind, traffic and whatnot. I am on the fence as well; I just wanted to add what L&B stated. I tried to find the publication/article but could not find it.

I can verify my decent rate does change, in deep toggles with an N3 (we all know this), however trying calculate that the glide changes is hard to do with said variables.

[JohnMitchell 16]

AtrusBatleth

***Let's say you are in this guys situation. What do you do next?

What I was trained, sit tight, don't touch your reserve handle if it's metal, and wait for help, but warn anyone approaching (including DZ staff) not to come close until the utility people can be called in to ensure the power is cut. Keep in mind I'm a newbie, but that means my training is fresh in my head.

That's if you are hanging in the power lines, not touching the ground. As far as not touching your metal reserve handle??? I don't get that. THAT won't ground you out and electrocute you.

If I was on the ground with my canopy up in the lines, I would be grateful to be alive and pull my cutaway handle quickly.

[jeggum 0]

I agree with John. Metal handle doesn't matter. But not much reason to touch it anyway. IF you are on the ground and still alive cutaway (disconnect rsl if equipped) and get clear of the area. Wait for the proper personal to hand you your gear.

[jakee 1,489]

Quote

I just wanted to add what L&B stated.

Technically, you wanted to add what you think you remember someone else saying that L&B stated...

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[yoink 321]

dorbie

I'm starting to wonder it the low turn = death mantra is actually creating a problem.

No.

Even if it is a problem, the number of people getting hurt by running into obstacles vs people who get hurt by turning low isn't remotely comparable.

[JohnMitchell 16]

yoink

***I'm starting to wonder it the low turn = death mantra is actually creating a problem.

No.

Even if it is a problem, the number of people getting hurt by running into obstacles vs people who get hurt by turning low isn't remotely comparable.

Good analysis there. It's better to hit an obstacle while in control and flaring than it is to make a radical low turn and slam into the ground next to the obstacle.

But we preach "no low turns" so much that some low timers seem hesitant to do even the gentle turns and corrections needed for good landings. Those skills need to be learned.

[erdnarob 1]

On the video, one can see the jumper was trying to land between power lines and a farm located at the right side.

In Canada, an helicopter (a Hughes 500) I have jumped from in 1983, crashed a short time later when the pilot tried to fly between a lake shore and a little island located at 200-300 ft from the shore. He hit an unseen power line between the shore and the island. The pilot and 3-4 journalists died.

DP Cooper # 0290

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[AtrusBatleth 0]

AlanS

That's if you are hanging in the power lines, not touching the ground. As far as not touching your metal reserve handle??? I don't get that. THAT won't ground you out and electrocute you.

If I was on the ground with my canopy up in the lines, I would be grateful to be alive and pull my cutaway handle quickly.

I understood the OP to be asking about being suspended in the air. With that said, I realized after posting my comment about the metal handle didn't make sense (I'm not a line worker but I do work for an electric utility and have been through some safety training). The point is, all the safety tips you hear about getting in a car accident with downed power lines still apply: if you are in a safe condition, stay there and wait for help and warn others approaching. If you must move, make sure nothing is dragging and hop or make small shuffle movements as you don't know if parts of the ground may be energized and if you take a big step with both feet on the ground the voltage may find a better path through YOU. Of course, it's best not to run into the power line in the first place.

Max Peck
What's the point of having top secret code names, fellas, if we ain't gonna use 'em?

[CHunter 0]

Never fly over something you're not willing to land in or on. If he had flown his base leg along that driveway it looks like he would have had plenty of room to land in the field he was aiming for.