pin check

[gofast_ER 0]

So when giving a pin check how many of you check for other things like bridle routed correctly? Just wondering because on my 32nd jump I had a pilot chute in tow. I had my gear checked twice before jumping. Once before I got in the plane and once right before exit. Obviously it wasnt caught either time. When i landed and was able to check out what happend it was clear right away the bridle was not routed correctly. I have no clue how that happend....maby I was in a rush to pack??? Don't really remember. I do know that ever since then whenever someone wants me to give them a pin check i always make sure the bridle is routed correctly too....and cocked.

I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it.

[councilman24 37]

Pin check is a misnomer. It's a gear check. From jumpmaster lots and lots of students I do a whole lot more than check a pin. Probably can't even remember every thing I check. A lot of it is just by eye. On the front, three rings assembled right, not flipped through, cables in place; chest strap routed right; handles in place (if it's someone that knows me and depending on the rig I may check that the reserve cable is free): legstraps routed/snapped right; altimeter? goggles? gloves? helmet? Again if I know the person I probably know what they jump with. On the back, risers secure?, main pin, bridle routing, PC cocked, PC in place, pocket secure, handle out? Reserve pin - depending on the rig and the person I may on may not actually check the reserve pin. On some rigs you can't see it, on some it damages the rig to get to it. On everything but Racers and Reflexes and Teardrops and probably something else the pin(s) are against the back. And "dude did you turn on your AAD?"

In the plane look at things but usually just check main pin to make sure it hasn't moved when sitting down.

Anybody do a pin check and checking only pins isn't anywhere close.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[gofast_ER 0]

i dont have an aad though i am deploying for a year pretty soon and when i get back i will definatly be getting one. When I had my pilot chute in tow I was in denial it was actually happening. I waited till I was a little below 1000 to do anything about it. Close one.
Anyway, I know that everything that can be checked should (espically the chest strap, iv heard some scary stories about what happens when it isnt done right). When someone ask me to do a pin check though i just start from the pin and run my hand down the bridle to the pilot chute to make sure that there is nothing that can stop it from comming out.

I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it.

[skydivermom 0]

I just got my own rig and I'm always concerned about a misrouted bridle. That scares me to death.

Mrs. WaltAppel

All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28

[azureriders 0]

As councilman24 said, in the plane I only check main pin as well as looking at anything I can see but the one that I am most meticulous on is that first gear check of the day. I know, I should be on that one but I am still on rental gear (not for long ) and that first gear check gets my full attention, includeing pulling the bridle out to show that it is free from pin to BOC and sometime repacking the PC if I don't like the way it looks.

Also, even though I am cleared to pack at my DZ, supervised by a rigger of course, I still pay for the last pack of the day. I take as good of care of the rig as I can, but I just find it a better service to the guy that is going to jump it next to have it "professionaly" packed.

[gofast_ER 0]

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I just got my own rig and I'm always concerned about a misrouted bridle. That scares me to death.

hopefully you wont have to learn the hard way like I did. I know I will NEVER make that mistake again though.

So when are you taking your written test for your A?

I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it.

[darnknit 0]

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depending on the rig and the person I may on may not actually check the reserve pin. On some rigs you can't see it, on some it damages the rig to get to it.

it damages some rigs to check the reserve pin? which rigs?

pulling is cool. keep it in the skin

[billvon 3,067]

>it damages some rigs to check the reserve pin? which rigs?

Well, you _can't_ check the reserve pin on a Reflex without removing it, or pulling it far from the jumper's body. Some rigs have stiffeners that do a very good job of keeping the reserve closed, but can take the wrong kind of "set" if they are opened and closed a lot. In many cases you can check the pin by pulling up a bit and looking sideways through the opening in the reserve flap.

[councilman24 37]

As Bill said. Look at a lot of old vector II's or javelins and you'll see the reserve flap have a curve to it. This is on rigs before the reserve flap tucked in at the end. A lot of people would bend that flap up to check the pin. Not so much any more but alot of them are hard to see. As Bill said, some you can see from the side. The owner should have opened the flap and checked the pin and cable at least at the beginning of the day. So unless they really want you to look at the reserve pin, be sure you can without screwing something up.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[councilman24 37]

What kind of rig and pocket did you route the bridle wrong on? It's pretty hard to route a PC in tow these days with BOC's. Not impossible, but hard. That must have taken real skill I have caught someone routing the bridle from the pin back under a side flap and then down to the pocket. That's about the only way I've seen it.

With leg strap pockets twisted leg straps were a problem. Before most rigs had heavy stiffeners on the laterals. Of course on the original belly band mount twited belly bands were routine.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[councilman24 37]

Actually, that's one thing I like about my Reflex. Nobody can screw with my reserve pin after I've checked it.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[FrogNog 1]

It's hard to check things in the plane, and we all know there's the danger of breaking something (e.g. prematurely opening a container) in the plane that would be more dangerous or inconvenient in the plane than on the ground.

So I wonder why anyone would expect to look, in the plane, for problems that can't get worse or better between when the jumper dons the rig and when they exit. A misrouted bridle should be found on the ground, not in the plane.

(I'm assuming a bridle cannot be routed correctly on the ground then be misrouted in the airplane.)

Shouldn't in-plane checks be for things that could change in the plane, such as pins or cables unseating (or overseating) themselves, B-12s opening/unclipping/bending-binding, handles getting buried or coming loose, and battery-operated devices conking out?

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[sid 1]

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Actually, that's one thing I like about my Reflex. Nobody can screw with my reserve pin after I've checked it.

Ditto my Racers!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pete Draper,

Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right?

[darnknit 0]

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So unless they really want you to look at the reserve pin, be sure you can without screwing something up.

it hadn't occurred to me that some people were careless when giving a pin check, but i guess i can see your point.

blue stuff,
p.j.

pulling is cool. keep it in the skin

[gofast_ER 0]

yes you have a point...somewhat. It's very simple to see if a bridle somehow got misrouted on accident though.

I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it.

[gofast_ER 0]

Quote

What kind of rig and pocket did you route the bridle wrong on? It's pretty hard to route a PC in tow these days with BOC's. Not impossible, but hard. That must have taken real skill I have caught someone routing the bridle from the pin back under a side flap and then down to the pocket. That's about the only way I've seen it.

With leg strap pockets twisted leg straps were a problem. Before most rigs had heavy stiffeners on the laterals. Of course on the original belly band mount twited belly bands were routine.

it was an infinity. I had just come back from an injury (due to another sport) I think that may have had something to do with it. The bridle did go back down under a flap. Thats why it seemed so obvious I don't know how me or no one eles caught it. Yeah your right...that took some real skill to do that without realizing it.

I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it.

[riggerrob 643]

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Pin check is a misnomer.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Sort of .....
Most of my students get three different equipment checks before exit.

Gear-up check = a thorough inspection to ensure that they donned the correct rig, turned on the AAD, have the right goggles, tied their shoes tightly, etc. Late in the PFF process, students are taught to pre-flight their own gear, with the instructor just confirming.
Pull the bridle out just far enough to confirm correct routing.

Pre-boarding check = Did they knock anything loose during dirt dives?
This equals a British "flight line check," but take it from a Senior Instructor who has inspected a hundred-plus students in the same day .... this process does not catch all faults.
Might pull out enough bridle to confirm correct routing.

Pre-exit check = Did they knock anything loose while moving around in the airplane? Did they put their goggles on? A quick sideways glance at pins and finish with a 3-of-3s check.
Is any bridle hanging loose?

• Quote

[Nightingale 0]

When I do a pin/gear check, I do this, in the same order:

1. 3 rings properly routed
2. chest strap properly routed
3. cutaway and reserve handles secure in the velcro
4. legstraps properly adjusted
5. reserve pin and AAD on (if accessible)
6. main pin
7. bridle routing/pilot chute cocked
8. pilot chute secure inside pouch and not hanging too far out
9. main hackey accessible and not tucked inside pouch.

I always go in the same pattern, starting from the top front and working down, then starting at the top back and working down. I find keeping the same pattern every time makes sure that I don't forget anything.

I've never caught a misrouted bridle, but I have caught misrouted 3 rings and loose chest straps.

[mjosparky 4]

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I always go in the same pattern,

Damn good way to do it. Also, keep one hand on item 1 while your eyes and other hand move to item 2. Keep other hand on item 2 while your hand and eyes move to item 3 and so on.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[uponone 0]

So did you do red then silver or just straight to silver?

[Baksteen 84]

I'm resurrecting this thread because of the Hawaii incident of 12 october 2009, which also (seems to) deal with a misrouted bridle.

In that thread, Yoink posted:

Quote

[You ask someone you trust to run their eyes over your gear. It's considered polite to ask if they want their reserve pin checking or leaving alone, and if you can't see it, to ask if they've checked that their AAD is on.
With the exception of the pin check, the rest of the inspection is entirely hands-off.
Is the PC in the pouch properly? Is the chest strap routed correctly? Have they remembered altis, goggles, hook knife? Is their RSL routed properly and did they mean to disconnect it?...

That got me thinking:
Once you ask me to give you a pincheck (gearcheck) I'll handle it the way I want.
That includes yanking your cheststrap to check the routing.

That lesson was driven home early in my HI-training, when my instructor asked me to give a student (who was geared up only for the occasion) a pin check. He had deliberately misrouted the chest strap in a way that *looked* very plausible.

Since the student in question was a girl, I inspected her chest strap visually and missed the routing problem.
When I OK'd her, the instructor hooked a single finger behind her chest strap and undid it, without saying a word.

Had I let her jump like that, I would have killed this student.

Of course the situation is slightly different with experienced jumpers - YOU and YOU alone are responsible for your own safety.

But.

Would anyone be able to sleep very well at night thinking "if only I'd done a full gear check on them, I would have caught that [insert error] and saved their life.."?

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[timmyfitz 0]

Quote

I'm resurrecting this thread because of the Hawaii incident of 12 october 2009, which also (seems to) deal with a misrouted bridle.

In that thread, Yoink posted:

Quote

[You ask someone you trust to run their eyes over your gear. It's considered polite to ask if they want their reserve pin checking or leaving alone, and if you can't see it, to ask if they've checked that their AAD is on.
With the exception of the pin check, the rest of the inspection is entirely hands-off.
Is the PC in the pouch properly? Is the chest strap routed correctly? Have they remembered altis, goggles, hook knife? Is their RSL routed properly and did they mean to disconnect it?...

That got me thinking:
Once you ask me to give you a pincheck (gearcheck) I'll handle it the way I want.
That includes yanking your cheststrap to check the routing.

That lesson was driven home early in my HI-training, when my instructor asked me to give a student (who was geared up only for the occasion) a pin check. He had deliberately misrouted the chest strap in a way that *looked* very plausible.

Since the student in question was a girl, I inspected her chest strap visually and missed the routing problem.
When I OK'd her, the instructor hooked a single finger behind her chest strap and undid it, without saying a word.

Had I let her jump like that, I would have killed this student.

Of course the situation is slightly different with experienced jumpers - YOU and YOU alone are responsible for your own safety.

But.

Would anyone be able to sleep very well at night thinking "if only I'd done a full gear check on them, I would have caught that [insert error] and saved their life.."?

I'm not sure what you mean by "I will handle it the way I want" but it's probably not a good idea to manhandle someones gear during a check.

It is not necessary to yank on a chest strap to know whether it is routed properly. A visual inspection would suffice unless something is blocking it. In that case just move what ever is blocking it (Example-chest altimeter).

The student being male or female shouldn't make a difference in visually inspecting the chest strap. You just have to know how to do it without getting a sexual harassment charge.

If it "looked" like it was routed properly and you missed it, I would guess that was due to lack of experience or to quick of an inspection. I have caught countless chest straps misrouted over the years with just a visual inspection.

Also, if I only ask for a pin check, that's all I expect. I wouldn't expect someone yanking my chest strap ever.

[Baksteen 84]

First, I'm used to people asking for a pin check, but meanning a full gear check. I do the same.

Reading back, I agree that I worded that post somewhat strongly.
With "the way I want" I meant that I will do a full gear check, which includes touching your gear, but (of course) treat it at least as well as my own.
I start at the three rings and work my way down the equipment - so if you really just want your pin checked AND are an experienced skydiver I'll comply.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[JohnDeere 0]

There are 2 instances that come to mind. Once riding up in the otter and at about 7k i noticed a newer jumpers chest strap not weaved correctly. I yanked on it and pulled it out and told her she could have easily died on that jump ( just to make her understand the importance of her own gear).

Second was a few weeks ago. 3 way head down (high low) I checked this girls main pin and pilot chute just before exit. She was inside and me and the other guy were outside. Well after exit (while still on the hill) i notice over her shoulder d bag and lines. I push both jumpers away so we all seperate. she open by 12.5k. She had a clean/smooth opening atleast . Well i notice a good opening (no malfunction's) so when i got down told manifest to let the pilots know there was someone high. Then she finally landed and i promised her serveral time over and over that all was good when i checked it. Then talked to an instructor that exited after us. He seen her hit her rig on the top inside handle while exiting and it must had pushed her pin out.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!