grue 1 #1 April 11, 2007 What the fuck is wrong with people? Obesity isn't a disease, and it isn't contagious. It's not an "epidemic" Furthermore, quit using the BMI, you motherfuckers! It's not a valid measurement!cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J_Cook 0 #2 April 11, 2007 Did someone just watch the Penn and Teller: Bullshit episode on the obesity "epidemic"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #3 April 11, 2007 Nah, I haven't downloaded that episode yet. They just used the phrase on the news and I found myself hoping the person who used it would drop dead right there on live TV.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #4 April 11, 2007 Quote I'm definitely opinionated, and I'm probably an asshole, but at least I'm ok with admitting it. So you're anal-retentive-repentive, then? Agreed on the BMI - I think it's definitely time to overhaul it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #5 April 11, 2007 Quote Quote I'm definitely opinionated, and I'm probably an asshole, but at least I'm ok with admitting it. So you're anal-retentive-repentive, then? Agreed on the BMI - I think it's definitely time to overhaul it. Yeah, there is a perfectly valid form of measurement to say if someone is fat: Body fat percentage. Something based on just height and weight is bullshit and doesn't work.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperGirl 0 #6 April 11, 2007 agreed!!! I feel like all these words that make it sound like a disease make it easier for people to take the "it's not my fault" attitude... like when you get the flu... "I wonder where I got it? Oh well, not much to do about it now..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #7 April 11, 2007 Break out the calipersDivot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #8 April 11, 2007 Well....epidemic often refers to disease, but it also means "extremely prevalent, widespread" (dictionary.com). Obesity has an ICD-9 code for billing, and, unlike the common cold, there's a high rate of morbidity and mortality associated with it. I get where you're coming from, but I agree that it's an epidemic. BMI. Would be nice to have a more valid measure. But there's a pretty decent correlation between BMI and syndromes associated with obesity. There's a similar issue with percent body fat. Subcutaneous body fat really isn't all that bad for you. In fact, a fat ass might just be protective against the very things that obesity is known to be associated with--diabetes, cardiovascular disease. It's intra-abdominal fat that seems to be the bad juju--"Central obesity." People with the big gut are more at risk than people with the fat ass. Either way, it's enough of a problem that a helluva lot of research dollars are being funneled into understanding the sequelae of obesity. I consider obesity to be a diseased state, and one that I'm more worried about than most things you'd call a real illness.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
watchdog2 0 #9 April 11, 2007 obesity is a resuly of a super acidic body...the body is trying to seperate the acidic ions from important muscle and tissues...so it stores it in fat in areas AWAY from the important organs that sustain life functions...like our hips, GUT, sides, legs...etc... GO read the book "Sick? and Tired" by Dr. Young... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karenmeal 0 #10 April 11, 2007 QuoteFurthermore, quit using the BMI, you motherfuckers! It's not a valid measurement! Why do you care if people use the BMI? It's pretty much only significantly off for people who are very muscular. I would wager a guess that very few, if any, of those body builder types would calculate their BMI and then panic about being overweight/obese. Most people who calculate this as a clue to their level of fitness/obesity level are probably not body builders. Personally, I think the BMI scale is right on for the weight range that is suggested for my height. I have been on the low end of normal, and I was skinny, and I've been on the high end of normal and I felt out of shape. Right in the middle at about a BMI of 21 is perfect for me. I can see where there are some problems with this scale, but it is just a general guideliene. There are other measurements such as the waist to hip ratio and body fat percentage that are available to people as alternatives to BMI. "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #11 April 11, 2007 QuoteBut there's a pretty decent correlation between BMI and syndromes associated with obesity. There's a fantastic correlation between ice cream sales and murder rates, too. Correlation does not equate to causation.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #12 April 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteFurthermore, quit using the BMI, you motherfuckers! It's not a valid measurement! Why do you care if people use the BMI? It's pretty much only significantly off for people who are very muscular. Because governments using something that is scientifically baseless and using it as a foundation for concepts and policies is fundamentally wrong.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karenmeal 0 #13 April 11, 2007 So you don't think there is a problem with obesity? You think that the BMI scale is just making us think that, when really all the body builders are dramatically skewing the results? "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #14 April 11, 2007 QuoteSo you don't think there is a problem with obesity? You think that the BMI scale is just making us think that, when really all the body builders are dramatically skewing the results? That's not even remotely close to what I said, and it really annoys me when people do shit like draw obviously incorrect conclusions from a simple statement. It's very much like western media types, putting words into people's mouths. Everyone knows there are a shitload of overweight people. I just have a problem with the terminology they use, and the fact that they're using an invalid form of measurement. Realistically, you don't have to be a bodybuilder to show as "overweight" on the BMI scale. I was a 28.1 through four years of uni-level soccer, and I wasn't particularly muscular, except in my legs. I just have a naturally large frame. My body fat percentage at the time was about a thirteen, if memory serves. Same goes for plenty of people. Again, I know there's a problem with people being overweight, but the numbers can't be particularly accurate when they're using a bullshit measurement. Do I know how inaccurate they are? No.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #15 April 11, 2007 Quote So you don't think there is a problem with obesity? I think there is most definitely a problem... Quote You think that the BMI scale is just making us think that, when really all the body builders are dramatically skewing the results? I know it is very difficult for me to maintain a "normal" BMI but I'm not particularly overwieght (my BMI is ~27, I'm 5'7" and 170 lbs)... I'm also quite fit. I am currently rowing at least 3 miles everyday, and I often row in excess of 6 miles. Then there's my brother... He is 5'8.5" and 165 lbs (which computes to a more normal BMI of 24.7) but probably couldn't run much more then half a mile due to the fact that he smokes... But wait... according to BMI I'm overweight... I think it might be broken... now I don't lift a lot... but I do lift some and I have much more muscle mass then my brother does... I probably also have a lot less fat then he does though... its great that the BMI works for some people... but the fact that its such an "accepted" practice means that the Government (my employer) is now using it as a basis for judging my fitness level...Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #16 April 11, 2007 Quotebut the fact that its such an "accepted" practice means that the Government (my employer) is now using it as a basis for judging my fitness level... *ding ding ding ding ding* And i wouldn't doubt for one second those bottomfeeders in the insurance industry use it, too.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #17 April 11, 2007 I agree with Scott. Since high school, I have always hovered around 170-180#. I have been from very fit without bulky muscle to kind of pudgy(now). So at 5'8", I am at the edge of obese. Sorry, it just don't fly. It might be a somewhat useful tool to act as a starting point for a conversation, but not used to measure someones health for a job.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #18 April 11, 2007 QuoteI agree with Scott. Since high school, I have always hovered around 170-180#. I have been from very fit without bulky muscle to kind of pudgy(now). So at 5'8", I am at the edge of obese. Sorry, it just don't fly. It might be a somewhat useful tool to act as a starting point for a conversation, but not used to measure someones health for a job. According to the calculator, I was "obese" as of the day I got back from hanging with you and The Evil One at Perris. I certainly put on about ten pounds on that vacation (which are long gone, thank xenu), but obese? Who the fuck are they kidding?cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karenmeal 0 #19 April 11, 2007 I just calculated it for your height.. and if you're at 160 you're at 25. (Which is considered normal.) Aren't you trying to lose a bit of weight currently? I know you're doing the belly-off thing but I don't know how far away you are from your goal. I know it's not a perfect system, but for calculating the general fitness level of the population can you really expect everyone to get their body fat checked? BMI is really simple and that's why it's use is so widespread. Grue, so the BMI classified you as overweight while you were playing college soccer. I would bet that less than 1 % of the general population plays college sports, which are very highly demanding and which you obviously have to be very physically fit for. You also said you have a large frame, so no wonder you were classified by the BMI as overweight. The BMI does not work for everyone, but it does work for a vast majority of people as an indicator of general fitness level. I would classify someone who spent 4 years playing college soccer and who has a large frame in the body-builder category of people for whom the scale is not applicable. "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J_Cook 0 #20 April 11, 2007 http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/prevepisodes.do?episodeid=s5/obesity A clip from an episode Penn and Teller: Bullshit. Not a direct link to the video, but the link is on the middle of the page. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #21 April 11, 2007 I agree with you about BMI, but it's a tool, a place to start, and as good as there is right now until some better tool comes up that can be objectively defined. It's kinda like what line you read on an eye chart tells basically nothing about your vision, it's just a number the doc throws in the chart so there's something there to document change should it occur. Unfortunately, it's the only objective tool I have to use, so go with it. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #22 April 11, 2007 QuoteI agree with you about BMI, but it's a tool, a place to start that much I'll agree with. It's the fact that policies are based on that irks the shit out of me. If they even added a waist size measurement into the formula, I'd hate it far less.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #23 April 11, 2007 QuoteSo you don't think there is a problem with obesity? You think that the BMI scale is just making us think that, when really all the body builders are dramatically skewing the results? Bird Man Instructors?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #24 April 11, 2007 QuoteIt's the fact that policies are based on that irks the shit out of me. I agree with you there too. Numbers are great, but are not always indicative of real life function and individual variation. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #25 April 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteBut there's a pretty decent correlation between BMI and syndromes associated with obesity. There's a fantastic correlation between ice cream sales and murder rates, too. Correlation does not equate to causation. ...and I would never argue that BMI causes the syndromes associated with obesity.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
