Sabre 2 170 brake line length?

[freefalljason 0]

I am considering buying a Sabre 2 170 with approx. 100 jumps on it from a friend and I have put 11 jumps on it. I have noticed that in full forward flight the steering lines don't have any "bow" in them and that any movement on the toggles has an immediate response, also if I try to pull down on a front riser (with toggle in hand) the canopy "bucks" and doesn't dive smoothly. Is this normal or do I need to have the brake lines checked out? I looked on PD's website and as best I can tell the brake to tog measurement is only about 1/2" off.

I don't intend to use the front risers unless I have to but I just want to be sure that it's not a real problem.

Thanks,

Jason

[matt91078 0]

I noticed the same when I got my Sabre2 135 back from a reline. The lines were tight on the tail in full flight and don't even think of trying a riser turn. I let mine out until it did not buck and the lines bowed a lot. Of course I did this in steps so I didn't go to flare and fall down because I'd let them out too much at once. As well, I practiced flaring, breaked turns, riser dives, etc after each change on a hop and pop or clear and pull and came up with what I liked. Never had a problem with it after doing it. Any other questions and your closest rigger or canopy coach can help you out.
Matt

Edit: Sorry, to answer your actual question if the tail is being deflected while in full flight you are losing an amount of forward speed that you use to cover ground while heading to the landing area and use to help create lift when you flare the toggles. Talk to the riggers around there or canopy coaches. To me, it sounds like they can be let out some but then again I'm not there to see it fly.

[Cloggy 1]

I also have a Sabre2 170. I found that the factory settings for the brakes were a bit on the short side when brand new. I added about 6" in at the time.
About 200 jumps later I noticed the canopy starting to buck again and it was getting difficult to keep it in front risers, so I put another 5" in: I had to replace the lower part of the brake line to do that.
It's definitely worth adjusting the brake lines, it flies so much easier in front risers.

[dharma1976 0]

I added about 6 inches to both of my sabre2's that I had owned

Cheers

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[Reginald 0]

Yes, your brake lines are too short. No big deal have them let out. There should be a bow and you should not "buck" while using front risers.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[freefalljason 0]

Thanks to everyone for all the advice. I am glad to know that it isn't a big deal. I will start letting the toggle attachment point out in 3 to 4 inch increments until I get better results.

Thanks Again.

Blue Skies,

Jason

[dharma1976 0]

you might want to do that in 2 inch increments...I forgot to say that earlier

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[PLF 0]

When you have toggles all the way up there should be equal amount of bow in your brake lines. Looking up your brake line while in flight it would look like 6 to 8 inches of bow.

From toggles all the way up, you should be able to pull them down 2 to 3 inches before the tail of canopy starts to deflect.

With toggles in hand, pulling front risers should not cause the canopy to buck.

As others in this post have stated, I would let them out 2 or 3 inches at a time.

The above information was obtained from speaking with current and former PD test pilots.

I am surprised that a canopy with just a 100 jumps has brake lines shrunk to that tight.

Good luck with it, be safe. Remember when looking at your canopy, keep other traffic in mind.

Oh, I have 500+ jumps on a S2 170.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

Interesting comments by FFJ and Matt...

FFJ... does the canopy really only have 100 jumps on it? I'd guess there should still be some bow left in the steering lines and they shouldn't have shrunk that much in just 100 jumps if that's all the line-set really has on it... ummm... we are talking Spectra here, right?

I wonder if the steering lines were really tied off at the correct place (mark) when installed. I thought the same thing when reading Matt's post. My experience with PD has been when one of their canopies / line-sets is new, if the toggles are tied off at the factory mark on the steering lines, then there is PLENTY of bow in the steering lines. Odd that there wouldn't be, makes me wonder if they weren't tied off at the right spot in the first place???

[mark 107]

Quote

makes me wonder if they weren't tied off at the right spot in the first place

I wonder also. Frequently the assembler does not allow for the length of line tied into the knot, nor the shrinkage caused by fingertrapping excess excess line, so the brake lines start 1"-2" short.

Mark

[matt91078 0]

They may not have been tied in the correct place. I did 2 clear and pulls observing the brake lines while flying around and was getting some wicked bucking while doing riser turns and the brake lines were taught, no bow at all in full flight. I stalled the canopy when I was finding where I could shut it down, up high of course, and it caught me off guard since it was not where I was expecting it to occur. I let them out a couple inches, then did a hop n pop, then let them out again, and did another hop n pop, then figured out where I finally wanted them to be after that and then proceeded to jump as normal.
The same thing happened with the Sabre2 170 I used to jump, but I did not purchase that new, and figured the lines would have shrunk 2-3 inches for the roughly 300 jumps on the canopy, but they were more of 5-6 and had the lower steering attachments replaced because the previous owner snipped the line instead of fingertrapping it so there was nothing to let out. Easy fixes, but takes a few minutes. Who knows how long a newer jumper would take to notice, or an experienced jumper to notice the lines taught on the other's canopy?
Matt
edit: spelling, & add Microline 825 for both Sabre2's