illob 0 #1 October 23, 2006 hello at the moment i've 35 jumps and jump 190sqft canopyes... but i've the jance to get an 120sqft very cheap. how many jumps more should i have to jump a chute like this? just guess... 100 or 200 or more? thanks and greetings tom ps: sorry for my english, i'm a swiss.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #2 October 23, 2006 what is your bodyweight, and what is the elevation of the DZ where you jump?Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #3 October 23, 2006 where do you jump in Switzerland ? Maybe I can indicate the correct people to talk to.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #4 October 23, 2006 Quotehello at the moment i've 35 jumps and jump 190sqft canopyes... but i've the jance to get an 120sqft very cheap. how many jumps more should i have to jump a chute like this? just guess... 100 or 200 or more? thanks and greetings tom ps: sorry for my english, i'm a swiss.. I'm guessing you load a 190 at 1:1? I wouldn't reccomend a 120 until you have at least 500+ skydives. When you have 500+ skydives (which will probably take a few years) you will still be able to find used 120sqFt parachutes. Spend your money on skydives."Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
illob 0 #5 October 23, 2006 i'm ~72kg (160lbs) and jump in Sitterdorf in Switzerland, thats close to Zürich... one of my instructors said you should have like 500 jumps.. isn't that a little bit too much? what is the biggest problem to fly a small one, the landing? thanks for takig time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mlbolon 0 #6 October 23, 2006 The landings what will hurt you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
illob 0 #7 October 23, 2006 mhh ok, i don't liek that so ithink i better wait.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FFlyer 0 #8 October 23, 2006 Im surprised no one has said anything about you wanting to downsize from a 190 to a 120 in one go. Thats huge!!! I would think even going straight from a 190 to a 150 is too big of a jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
illob 0 #9 October 23, 2006 i don't wana downsize in one, im just wondring how long it takes me to downsize step by step.... you see i'm a beginner and thankfull for your helb! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #10 October 23, 2006 Quotei'm ~72kg (160lbs) and jump in Sitterdorf in Switzerland, thats close to Zürich... one of my instructors said you should have like 500 jumps.. isn't that a little bit too much?what your instructor said look the post above yours, the estimate given is about the same. I wheigh the same as you, my 1st jump on a 120 was at about jump 600, and I was not being very conservative in my progression. I know noone personnally in Sitterdorf, but if you want to talk to "progressive" people at a progressive DZ, go to Beromunster, they have lots of continuity in canopy progression, and I have the feeling that the best (safest) canopy flyers in the country are found at that DZ.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
illob 0 #11 October 23, 2006 ok, thanks so i contact local people here. i was just wondering what you folks say.. best regards and blue skyes tom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #12 October 23, 2006 also ask the same on www.freefly.ch but you'll get the same "NO WAY" answer...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #13 October 23, 2006 Let's work this out, you weigh 72 kg's and you can add another 10kg's minimum for your gear. So that's 82kg's x 2.2 = 180.4 pounds. Divide that by 120 = a wing loading of 1.5 pounds per square foot. And that's where things start to get rather interesting performance wise. Jumping at that wing loading with 200 jumps is very dangerous. Not to mention FFlyer's very good point that a downsize from a 190 to a 120 is not a very good idea at all. There are plenty of people that have hurt or killed themselves because they got a good deal on a piece of equipment that was priced right instead of being sized right. My advice would be to forget about the 120 and stick to a nice, slow progression. Look at getting a 170 next, when it's time to downsize and i would say not to exceed a wing loading of 1.1 till you have over 100 jumps at least. Read these threads and have a look at what Brian Germain, a very experienced canopy guru recommends. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1981564;search_string=Wing%20load%20chart;#1981564 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1383081;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; I'd also recommend that you get hold of Brian's book, The Canopy and Its Pilot for further advice. edited for spelling Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #14 October 23, 2006 In The Netherlands you'd need 700 (!) jumps to be allowed to fly a 120. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazyboy 0 #15 October 23, 2006 And the same link on more time http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdfIf your parachute fails to open, remember you have the rest of your live to fix it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #16 October 23, 2006 Quotei'm ~72kg (160lbs) and jump in Sitterdorf in Switzerland, thats close to Zürich... one of my instructors said you should have like 500 jumps.. isn't that a little bit too much? It's on the low end of reasonable. Read Brian's notes - he understands both parachutes and learning. It takes a few hundred jumps to really get familiar with a canopy in a certain size. As a minimum you might put 50 jumps on a 190, 100 on a 170, 150 on a 150, and 300+ on a 135. Not enough to be really familiar with any of the canopies, but it will keep you from getting bored and hopfully let you learn enough to not hurt yourself too badly. As parachutes get smaller they become more of a handful. Although speed is almost purely a function of wingloading, the canopy's control sensitivity is more a function of size. I put 250 jumps on my Monarch 135 (square) and 150 on my Batwing 134 (elliptical) before downsizing to my Stiletto 120 after 600 total jumps and that still wasn't enough to have it always fly in a straight line after a front riser turn or to avoi d pain when walking for a few months (I got lucky with bruised heels). Quote what is the biggest problem to fly a small one, the landing? What happens when you make too much control input (intentional or unintentional) too close to the ground and lack the experience to recognize and correct before something bad happens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyinseivLP2 0 #17 October 23, 2006 Quote what is the biggest problem to fly a small one, the landing? The biggest problem is that you increase your chances of dying or being severely hurt. YOur instructor is right listen to them. By the way if you are interested in reading more about why the do a search for "wingloading" i'm sure you will find more than enough info. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #18 October 23, 2006 Quotewhat is the biggest problem to fly a small one, the landing? The smaller the parachute the faster everything happens - it moves faster and responds more aggressively to smaller inputs. If you haven't spent enough time flying larger parachutes it's quite likely that when something goes wrong close to the ground you won't realise quickly enough to fix it before you hurt yourself. I'd strongly recommend getting a copy of Brian Germain's The Parachute And Its Pilot. It should be reasonably easy for a non-native English speaker to understand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
illob 0 #19 October 24, 2006 ok folks thats cool, i can learn a lot from you! ok, i also can ask my instructors, but i don't see them that often, and they're always busy... so thanks for saving my live fall free, tom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #20 October 24, 2006 Quoteoi also can ask my instructors, but i don't see them that often, and they're always busy...take time in the evening, drink a beer with them, they'll have time for you. They certainly do not live very far from you and will be open to discussion. Nimm Zeit.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #21 October 24, 2006 Another thing to consider, if you're buying a complete rig, is what the reserve is? You want a reserve that is loaded at 1:1 or lower. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
illob 0 #22 October 24, 2006 Yea, thats what i should do! In Switzerland is everything close yes, that makes sense to have a good load on the reserve. I'll bee more carefull with buying a rigg! have a good one Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris-Ottawa 0 #23 October 25, 2006 Quotehello at the moment i've 35 jumps and jump 190sqft canopyes... but i've the jance to get an 120sqft very cheap. how many jumps more should i have to jump a chute like this? just guess... 100 or 200 or more? thanks and greetings tom ps: sorry for my english, i'm a swiss.. Hello, I just wanted to post here to give you an example of how much a canopy like that will change what you feel. I got alot of comments about jumping a 135. The difference between me and you is that I am much lighter, I weigh just under 135 out the door , which means I'm loading the 135 at 1:1 roughly. If you look at my previous posts, you'll see how much I was told not to do it.I admit the 135 was agressive, but not absurd. At your wing loading, it would be absurd for your experience level. I have about 20 jumps on the 135 now and I am comfortable under it, but I always have to be on guard, if I make a simple mistake, I understand that the consequences will be huge. Please don't buy a 120, especially if it is elliptical, that is a whole other problem. Listen to your instructors, they are the best place for information as they know how you handle your canopy. You can still have a tonne of fun under your 190 or a 170. I bought mine because my instructors gave the OK, and I got a good deal on it. That is the wrong reason to buy gear. Deal or no deal, this is your life in your own hands. I have no intentions to downsize EVER. Maybe go to a same sized elliptical in 5 or 600 jumps, but not necessarily smaller."When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #24 October 25, 2006 [replyI have no intentions to downsize EVER. Maybe go to a same sized elliptical in 5 or 600 jumps, but not necessarily smaller.] Hehe. I had similar statement about fast/ZP/elliptical canopies 5 years ago. Never say never! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
