Lengthening brake lines

[chanti 0]

I did a search but couldn't really find the answer I was looking for ... forgive me if this has already been posted.

I noticed that my brake lines were very short, causing my canopy to fly almost in quarter brakes all the time, I had funny openings and flaring is not as effective as it used to be - so I asked my rigger to check the lines for me. He has now lengthened the lines by 30 cm (about 12 inches!)

Tomorrow will be the first day I jump the canopy after this alteration. What is to be expected? How will the flight characteristics have changed? I'm worried that I might now have to hook the toggles around my ankles to flare!

-Chanti-

[ntacfreefly 0]

2 things:

1) The openings will stay the same no matter how you lengthen then line UNLESS the rigger has moved the Cat's eye.

2) If your lines were 12 inches off I'd highly suggest a trim check as it's extremely likely that you need a new lineset.

Otherwise, for now, just pull a little higher and play with the canopy for a bit to get a feel for it. It'll fly/flare differently. If anything you should find it easier to land as the wing will have more airspeed instead of landing like you were in quarter brakes.

Blues,
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[riggerrob 643]

It will open the same.
However, as soon as you release the brakes, you will notice that the canopy flies faster and has a steeper glide angle.
When you get to the bottom end, you with have to depress the toggles an additional 12 inches to get a decent flare.

[parafredo 0]

You should also measure from cat eye to steering cascade and cascade as well,this part also shrinks like the lower part.Always compare with original specs and you will see,might be surprised!

[chanti 0]

Thanks everybody! You were right - it did open the same (erratic and off-heading), but it now flies much better and is easier for me to land (smoother flare and longer distance travelled after planing out).

I'll have the rigger look at the length from cascade to cat's eye.
Thanks again

-Chanti-

[lekstrom10k 0]

Not knowing what canopy you have its hard to tell what dimensions you need. If you side pack stack you main its easiest to check whats going on,Your canopy specs will tell you how much distance from your "A" to "B", "A"to "C" "A" to "D".My SabreII has3,10 .20.75 EG +or- .500. The tail to brake set is 8 inches means the tail should be 8 inches above the "A"to open good. Check your shortest steering attachment and see if its above the "A". Adding below the loop is only relative to your comfort range.Less tail droop and toggles to knees flares. The tail to low it snivels ,up to far it dives to open. and still takes forever. my canopy only has 500 on it and my cascade to brake loop is almost three inches short of the 105.62 factory specs. time to change.I will check the other specs at tha time and if they are really wacky, its time for a new line set.You could chase the steering lines, but only overcome a symptom not the problem.

[ntacfreefly 0]

Glad to hear it's easier to land and flies better.

Quote

I'll have the rigger look at the length from cascade to cat's eye.

I'd highly recommend a full trim check by the rigger. I'm guessing your canopy is way out of trim based on the brake length shrinkage so moving the cat's eye can have even more unpredictable results.

It sounds to me like you're due for a new lineset. I'd have a rigger confirm that and then, if necessary, get them ordered.

Blues!
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[freekflyguy 0]

Quote

It will open the same.
However, as soon as you release the brakes, you will notice that the canopy flies faster and has a steeper glide angle.
When you get to the bottom end, you with have to depress the toggles an additional 12 inches to get a decent flare.

Thats not necessarily true, it could be that with his old brake lines he was on the edge of stalling his canopy on landing.

I see too many jumpers who have this problem and watch their canopies bow behind them almost collapsing as they touch down due to short lines.

He may not need to depress the toggles an additional 12 inches to get a decent flair, what it will do is give him better control of his canopy in slow flight.

Buzz

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

[riggerwink 0]

It sounds to me like you're due for a new lineset. I'd have a rigger confirm that and then, if necessary, get them ordered

[chanti 0]

Quote

it could be that with his old brake lines he was on the edge of stalling his canopy on landing.

I'm a SHE, not a he!!!!! FEMALE!!!

My lineset only has 300 jumps on it, isn't that a bit soon for a new lineset?

-Chanti-

[ntacfreefly 0]

Quote

A gerneral rule of thumb is that if your line set has 500 jumps on it, you need a new one.

Yep. I replace mine, and recommend to others, every 400 jumps pretty much regardless. I realize that I'm a little more on the conservative side with these numbers but I like keeping my gear in good shape.

To the original poster I've seen spectra severely out of trim in as little as 200 jumps, abeit it's rare.

Blues,
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

Quote

it could be that with his old brake lines he was on the edge of stalling his canopy on landing.

I'm a SHE, not a he!!!!! FEMALE!!!

My lineset only has 300 jumps on it, isn't that a bit soon for a new lineset?

The steering lines shrink fastest; I've never gotten 300 jumps out of a set.

The rest of the line set shrinks more slowly, although I did reline a Monarch 135 with an alleged 300 jumps on it due to a worsening built-in turn.

By 500 jumps my Stiletto 120 with 550 lines was getting wonky on openings, and at 600 jumps I measured 6" of shrinkage from the original length on the outer lines (4.5" shorter than they were suppoed to be compared to lines farther in that had shrunk less).

[chanti 0]

My lines are 750 HMA, not spectra, which I understand does not shrink as much as spectra does but is more prone to breaking ... is that correct? Only my brake lines are spectra (from cascade to toggle)

-Chanti-

[ntacfreefly 0]

Quote

My lines are 750 HMA, not spectra, which I understand does not shrink as much as spectra does but is more prone to breaking ... is that correct? Only my brake lines are spectra (from cascade to toggle)

Ahh - yeah then just the brake lines are susceptible to shrinkage. Last I jumped a ZP.exe they were still using spectra, guess they changed to HMA
The HMA should stay in trim over the life of the lines.

Blues,
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[DJL 235]

Quote

2 things:

Otherwise, for now, just pull a little higher and play with the canopy for a bit to get a feel for it. It'll fly/flare differently. If anything you should find it easier to land as the wing will have more airspeed instead of landing like you were in quarter brakes.

Blues,
Ian

A LITTLE higher? Geez people, let's learn our canopies a bit. Hey Chanti, clear and pull from 13k, maybe with a little delay. Run through some canopy drills. Coordinate this with manifest and the pilot so you don't have the following load dumping on top of you.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[ntacfreefly 0]

Quote

A LITTLE higher? Geez people, let's learn our canopies a bit.

Yes, a little higher. If you need a 13k clear and pull to learn how to land your canopy safely after lengthening brakes then perhaps you should be under a canopy better suited to your skill level.

I'm all for learning your canopy but you dont need to do a 13k clear and pull (which I happen to love doing) just to learn how to flare accordingly after lengthening the brake lines.

Blues,
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[billvon 2,990]

>The steering lines shrink fastest; I've never gotten 300 jumps out of a set.

I've started replacing the lowers of my canopies with Dacron. Not much more drag, but much longer life (and lower chance of breakage.)

[DJL 235]

Word, my brother.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[chanti 0]

Quote

I'm all for learning your canopy but you dont need to do a 13k clear and pull (which I happen to love doing) just to learn how to flare accordingly after lengthening the brake lines.

I'm still a low number jumper, so I did a clear and pull from 11K as I was not quite sure what to expect. I love those jumps too every now and then just to be sure I can do everything I need to be able to do under canopy. I've had a recent femur break so I'm not taking any chances. Also, as we are a high altitude DZ (4.5 K) and it's summer so humidity and turbulence is high, for me a clear and pull was the logical thing to do.

-Chanti-