Risk: Motorcycles vs. Skydiving

[Jeff.Donohue 0]

So I went out for dinner with my parents (and wife and kid) tonight, and we got onto the subject of motorcycles. I don't ride, but want to; I've signed up for a motorcycle riding class in mid-April.

My parents were utterly aghast. They couldn't believe it. They begged me not to do it...

As you can see from my profile, I'm a low numbers jumper, but they have no issue with me skydiving. In fact, my dad has done a tandem. However, they claim that motorcycling is riskier than skydiving, and my wife agrees.

Now, I'd love to prove with concrete statistics that skydiving is actually riskier than motorcycling (if they are OK with skydiving and it's riskier, why should they complain about motorcycles). However, I have no access to actuarial tables or anything like that to prove it.

So, let's hear the theories -- am I right? Are they? I'm sure the answer will be something to the effect of "X skydives is as risky as driving Y miles on a bike", but I don't know what either X or Y are.

(I realize this is sort of the opposite of what is usually posted here -- usually, we're arguing that skydiving is comparably safe compared to various activities, but I'm doing my mid life crisis in reverse...)

Thanks for all of your input.

-JPD

[Samurai136 0]

Here's a trauma surgeon's POV

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/motosafety.html

  Quote

Motorcycle fatalities represent approximately five percent of all highway fatalities each year, yet motorcycles represent just two percent of all registered vehicles in the United States. One of the main reasons motorcyclists are killed in crashes is because the motorcycle itself provides virtually no protection in a crash. For example, approximately 80 percent of reported motor- cycle crashes result in injury or death; a comparable figure for automobiles is about 20 percent.

http://www.msf-usa.org/

Once you get the motorcycle, consider taking up BASE, Bungie jumping, Back-country skiing, free-climbing, and tow-in big wave surfing...

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[NewGuy2005 53]

My family is the same way regarding skydiving/motorcycling. They are also absolutely right.

Motorcycles are incomparably more dangerous. In skydiving, you have a fair amount of control over the dangers. In motorcycling, you have almost no control over the dangers. (cars)

[hobie331 0]

I've ridden longer than jumped. I rode for about 25 years before I took a mc course. One of the first questions you will be asked, "is the risk worth the reward?" I took the course because my wife wanted to learn to ride. She is also a jumper.
Statistics? My profession leads me to research. One thing I have found is that you can find +, - research for anything. Helmet makers tell you their product saves lives. ABATE tells you the opposite. Negative bias research doesn't get published(in other words if there is a different response than wanted, it doesn't get published. But that's another topic).
Bottom line. IS THE RISK WORTH THE REWARD? If it's not, don't ride. Maybe give up skydiving too. Yeah, I know, like that's goning to happen.
Also, check out http://www.mmchoppers.com/images/barnt.html
for some old school badass s**t!

It's a gift, I don't try to explain it.

[lilDevil 2]

Its people in cars that are dangerous unless they have owned a bike. My ex husband always had bikes I spent a lot of time on the back and now I always aware of bikes on the road.

```````````````````````````````````
" Cant keep a good woman down "
Angels have wings, but devils can fly !

[d123 3]

  Quote

Once you get the motorcycle, consider taking up BASE, Bungie jumping, Back-country skiing, free-climbing, and tow-in big wave surfing...

On average speaking, is Bungie jumping as dangerouse as B.A.S.E.? I was thinking of trying some bungie jumps.

Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!

[DiggerDan 0]

Well, I can count 2 times in my driving career that had I been on a motorcycle instead of in a car, I would probably have been killed. I don't like those odds.

[jakee 1,563]

  Quote

  Quote

Once you get the motorcycle, consider taking up BASE, Bungie jumping, Back-country skiing, free-climbing, and tow-in big wave surfing...

On average speaking, is Bungie jumping as dangerouse as B.A.S.E.? I was thinking of trying some bungie jumps.

Bungie jumping is almost completely risk free, it's like a theme park ride. There is absolutely no comparison.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kbordson 8]

  Quote

  Quote

  Quote

Once you get the motorcycle, consider taking up BASE, Bungie jumping, Back-country skiing, free-climbing, and tow-in big wave surfing...

On average speaking, is Bungie jumping as dangerouse as B.A.S.E.? I was thinking of trying some bungie jumps.

Bungie jumping is almost completely risk free, it's like a theme park ride. There is absolutely no comparison.

Depends on several factors:

maintaince of the bungie
length of the bungie
Crocadiles (but...according to snopes, that video was faked)

and just cuz somethings a theme park ride doesn't mean it wont cause harm or death.

[towerrat 0]

I have been riding motorcycles on the street for nearly 20 years. I can tell you from personal experience that it is extremely dangerous to be on the road on a bike. That being said, I will never give up my bike. It offers me something that cannot be replaced by any other means. I love to ride, and probably always will, but sometimes it's FUCKING scary.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!

[jakee 1,563]

  Quote

length of the bungie

No shit!

  Quote

and just cuz somethings a theme park ride doesn't mean it wont cause harm or death.

I chose theme park rides for a reason, everyone's heard of a rollercoaster somewhere somewhen coming off the tracks.

The fact remains though, compared to any real sport bungie jumping is completely pussified.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[d123 3]

I totally agree with you! You can die from just going down the stairs but this doesn't make going down the stairs on average a dangerous action.

I know because I got 20000+ stairs under my belt (but who's counting) and still going (yeah baby, beat that - you can tell that I hate false modesty when it comes to stairs) and I have to say to all the other stairs users out there that after all those years I still like it and that I'm doing it just like I use too when I was younger

Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!

[freethefly 6]

  Quote

My parents were utterly aghast

You worry about what your parents think? Get some sharp scissors and cut the freaking embilical cord!

  Quote

they claim that motorcycling is riskier than skydiving, and my wife agrees.

WTF!!!! The seat at the back of a bike is known as the bitchpad. The woman is to sit there, no matter how uncomfortable they are, and not say anything, mostly not to be agreeing with mommy and daddy. Get some balls, buy the bike. Being that you have never rode, pay attention in the riders course. Personally, I have never taken such a course and feel that I do not need one as I have been riding since age 5 (I'm now 47) starting on a minibike and worked my way up through motocross racing and at age 16 onto streetbikes. Been hit once by a car, once by another motorcycle and taken down by a fucking squirrel out on Otay Lake road. I have put more than 1 million miles under my ass on a bike. Motorcycles are only as safe as you make them to be. Ride as if every cage is out to flatten your ass. Keep your eyes open, your head on a swivel and keep it between the lines. Enjoy the wind! Ride as if you own the road. By the way, I hope that you are not considering a bike far to big and powerful for your level of experience. Start out on something such as a small Sportster 883 or even something smaller. To many first time riders want to jump on the big Hog and only end up hurting themselves or someone else or the bike just scares them and it sits untill it sells. You wouldn't start out skydiving on the smaller canopies, why start out on the biggest bikes? Play safe, work your way up. Enjoy it.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[parachutist 2]

Motorcycles are loads of fun. You need your head on a swivel at all times, though, just like under canopy. The moment you let your guard down, some cage will get the better of you. Bikes have advantages to cars when it comes to avoiding collisions... as long as you're fully aware of everything around you. Bikes accelerate faster, stop faster, turn quicker. But maintaining awareness of your surroundings is draining on you and eventually you'll get lulled into a false sense of security and be at high risk.. whether out in the sticks or in a big city. That's my experience in a nutshell (5 bikes, 18 years riding). High risk if you don't watch all your p's and q's, but loads of fun. A higher percentage of my friends who ride have broken bones than those who jump.

Chris

[Jeff.Donohue 0]

The point wasn't "get some balls, get the bike", as I said, I've already signed up for the class and am getting the bike.

However, in interacting with people, I like to say more than "STFU"; I like to be able to give a good explanation for my position. So if I could have shown statistically it was safer, I would have liked to.

[shropshire 0]

It's a very difficult question to generalise about.
I've been riding for over 25 years now (wooo, is it that long?) and have had my share of spills (all self induced) and thrills (mostly 3rd party induced!!). I was taught to ride defensively and in the main it works. If I see someone near to me driving (or riding - yes motorcyclists can be arseholes too) agressively or dangerously, then I'll back off (better to arrive late than be the Late Tony!!).
My bike provides me with a great deal of fun and whilst that is the case, I'll continue to use it.
My Skydive rig, also provides me with a great deal of fun and once again whilst that is the case, I'll continue to use it too.

It's a personal choice and one that you need to come to terms with your self. Your freinds and family may not agree so you have to take their views into consideration but at the end of the day, it's your decision.

Have fun but be as safe as you can. Dont worry about things that you have no control over.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[CornishChris 5]

I ride & jump and am currently involved in an advanced riding course.

My gut reaction is that skydiving is more inherently dangerous than motorcycling as an individual activity but if you take into account third party actions then riding probably gets up there. I do get a bit frustrated with people (no one in this thread yet!) who seem to be determined to promote just how safe skydiving is - that is just downright bollocks, however riding can also be relatively safe. Yes, you can probably prove either is worse or better using the magic of statistics, but both can me made safer by the individuals involved -better training, more restraint, avoid certain situations.

I have always thought there were alot of similarities between the two activities and I love them both. As ever the statistics come down to how much time you spend doing each activity - I ride about 12,000 miles a year and do about a 100 jumps. If you had to force me to give up one it would be jumping. Sorry.

Incidentally, here is a picture of my cousin & I taken this very morning after a blast around oxfordshire - I am on the Triumph on the right...

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[freethefly 6]

  Quote

The point wasn't "get some balls, get the bike", as I said, I've already signed up for the class and am getting the bike.

However, in interacting with people, I like to say more than "STFU"; I like to be able to give a good explanation for my position. So if I could have shown statistically it was safer, I would have liked to.

Really, it is all up to you and no need to provide statistics. Hell, my mom has complained about me riding since I was 5 years old. She blames my father. She has said that she feels better when I am skydiving then when I ride. Personally, I don't give a damn how she or anyone else feels. It's my life and no one elses. I do as I please. If it is statistics that you want to show, show them, you might want to rethink doing that as statistics can be somewhat scary to a non-riding person.
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/
2004 there were 4008 motorcycle fatalies compared to near 7000 deaths due Dr. handwriting for prescriptions. Statisticly you are safer riding a bike than going to the Dr.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[mikempb 0]

Jeff, Ive rode motorcycles for 14 yrs. Actually sportbikes. I sold my bike last June because with a family I wanted to be a little more responsible( ok all my friends stopped riding yrs before didnt help). Ive had a couple of scary situations skydiving, but Ive had THOUSANDS of close calls riding. Again that was sporbikes which I rode pretty agressively, but you will have no doubt more close calls on a bike of any kind....... sorry to break it to you

[parachutist 2]

You UK folks have a great mag over there: Performance Bikes. The stuff we get over here in the US is mainly just flashy glossy photos. PB magazine sets things in proper perspective. I remember reading some of their articles years ago... they'd be trying out some new bikes and thrashing them hard. Then one of their riders would go down during the tests and they'd show the compound femur fracture in all its glory, complete with road gravel stuck in the skin. It was real & it made me think about what may actually happen when things don't work out as planned.


Chris

[kbordson 8]

  Quote

  Quote

The point wasn't "get some balls, get the bike", as I said, I've already signed up for the class and am getting the bike.

However, in interacting with people, I like to say more than "STFU"; I like to be able to give a good explanation for my position. So if I could have shown statistically it was safer, I would have liked to.

Really, it is all up to you and no need to provide statistics. Hell, my mom has complained about me riding since I was 5 years old. She blames my father. She has said that she feels better when I am skydiving then when I ride. Personally, I don't give a damn how she or anyone else feels. It's my life and no one elses. I do as I please. If it is statistics that you want to show, show them, you might want to rethink doing that as statistics can be somewhat scary to a non-riding person.
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/
2004 there were 4008 motorcycle fatalies compared to near 7000 deaths due Dr. handwriting for prescriptions. Statisticly you are safer riding a bike than going to the Dr.

Not to send this to SC - but "statistics" like that are why statisticians have a bad name. 7000deaths/2.3 Billion scripts written total - death rate = 1.23 x10-15. Motorcycles 4000 deaths/ 5.3 million registered vehicles = 7.54 x 10 -4. Skydiving - Accident statistics as provided by United States Parachute Association (USPA) 2005, 27 fatalities / 2.2 million skydives = 1.22 x 10-5. So... with looking at EQUAL ratios - motorcycles are the most dangerous.... but he does have a good point with the "get some balls" type attitude, kinda... but poor presentation.

Life is meaningful to different people in different ways, you need to explain to those near you that to truly be "living" you find enjoyment in "motorcycles" or "Skydiving" or whatever your hobbies truly are. Why live a life in safety if it's not the life you want to live?

[shropshire 0]

Personally, I think that 'Bike' is a better mag' - afterall, it's got Ogri

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[MikeWoolford 0]

The main thing is not to get over clever.. I ride a GSX 1100 in Harare, Zimbabwe. I have to worry about dogs, goats, drunk pedestrians and drivers, potholes and police roadblocks! I try not to ride at night for obvious reasons.. With jumping or riding a bike you can end up wearing your arse as a hat if you are not focused on what you are doing. Dont open it up or hook it in to impress bystanders.(Unless they are really hot!!)

http://mysite.de/wildsideadventures

[Jeff.Donohue 0]

Yes, yes, yes... But you seem to be missing the point.

I'm going to do what I want to do; I'm going to get the bike. That was never the issue.

What I was struggling for was a way to maybe make these people feel somewhat better, given that they were stressed out about it. Sure, I could be a self-centered prick and say, "It's my life and I don't give a crap about how you feel, parents/wife/kid", but that would make me, well, a self-centered prick.

So I was hoping that I would be able to say, "see, you're OK with skydiving, and motorcycles are less risky, so don't worry..."

But it looks as though from what I've read here that I really can't use that argument, so, in short, I won't make that argument.

I'll keep doing what I'm doing, and they'll just be stressed. I guess that's life.

[therealbonger 0]

it was somewhere on these forums where i read a post that divided total car miles, by car fatalities, total motorcycle miles, by fatalities and skydives, by fatalities, it came out to be 297 miles in a car, 29.5 miles on a bike, and 1 skydive. I will try to find the thread for you.