skydivex3m 0 #1 November 23, 2006 I own a Micron and would not have to worry about the chest rings option, but a friend of mine asked me about pro's and con's regarding chest rings. I would like some info from you rigger guys...https://icarusanddaedalusadventures.blogspot.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeffrey 1 #2 November 23, 2006 Being a rigger guy myself of many years should qualify me to answer this. I can tell you we probably build about 30+ Chest Ring harnesses to 1 non chest ring. I’m sure there is a reason, just think about it and or ask someone that jumps one. Jeff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #3 November 23, 2006 QuoteI own a Micron and would not have to worry about the chest rings option, but a friend of mine asked me about pro's and con's regarding chest rings. I would like some info from you rigger guys... I am not a rigger but keep in mind this excellent post - disadvantage: they can shift on you... From: Rick Horn Subject: 5000+ jumps, saved by RSL Date: 1997/00/03 I got saved by,a backup device (RSL) on Thursday. August 28th. I thought I’d relay the formation My background: 5000+ jumps, 107 cutaways, (No I don’t need to learn how to back, a lot of test jumps and films.) About 20 unplanned cutaways. 21 years jumping, AFF I/E, static Line I/E, Full time instructor at Perris, AFF Course Director for USPA. Equipment Background: Rig- Javelin, Articulated harness (Rings top and bottom), RSL and Cypres equipped. Soft Reserve pillow, Main, Stiletto 135. Reserve- PDI43R, I wear my leg straps and chest strap quite tight. The jump: A great APP Level 4, the student did well, I watched deployment on the student’s canopy, and hung around to give a thumbs up forte camera. This put everything happening a little lower than usual, so I threw the main out at about 2100, as opposed to the usual 2500 since I’ve gotten older and hopefully wiser. The main opened into a severe spin. There were no line twists, but I don’t know what caused the spin, as I could not see the left side of the canopy. After the usual playing around with It, I decided to get rid of it. My procedures are grab cutaway, grab reserve, pud cutaway, pull reserve. I went for the cutaway handle, and to my surprise, it was on the LEFT side of my chest I grabbed it, and reached for the reserve handle. It was somewhere under my left armpit I could only touch it with my thumb, and not grab it. My theory is that a combination of the severe spin and the articulated harness allowed the handles to move so far. I had also practiced hooking my thumb between the reserve pillow and the housing. I was unable to do it. I then pulled the cutaway handle, as I was not accomplishing anything in my attempt to find the reserve handle. After pulling the cutaway, I continued to search for the reserve pillow. I was unable to find it. I theorize that it tucked under the main lift web as the harness slid back into position That theory took a couple of days to figure out. Being honest, I have my sincere doubts that I would have found the handle within the 6 seconds of working time that I had left. My ML prevented me from knowing the answer. I have since modified my rig to include a standard ripcord on the reserve. This should also serve as a reminder that backup devices, whether they be ML or AAD can save your life, no matter what your experience. Please don’t make this into a debate thread, there have been enough. I just wanted to share the experience, so people could make informed decisions. Rick Horn D-6277 AFFI/E USPA APP Course Director Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeffrey 1 #4 November 24, 2006 A bit off topic but it sounds like some people should get better acquainted with the location of their handles in the saddle. No mater how many jumps you have. After being in this industry for so long, in the past I regularly jumped back to back different combinations of rigs and deployment devises. From some rigs being too large for me to some being too small, from PULL-OUT to ROL, ROL to BOC and so on back and forth. So often that at times I forgot and grabbed ROL when I had pull-out and vise-versa. This never cost me more than a split second deploying my main but it did teach me to know where the rest of my handles where. I developed a reflex habit to always touch my handles after line stretch every jump. Having not jumped in some time I hope this is a common practice with every one today. If not, it should be. Even if you jump the same rig over and over. On a side note, if you have handles that can roll under your MLW. Get them fixed. Jeff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gene03 0 #5 November 24, 2006 I'm stumped with the abreviation ML? Can someone educate me?“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 107 #6 November 24, 2006 ML = typo for RSL. (Also, APP = typo for AFF.) Rick Horn's original rec.dot post is here. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
za_skydiver 0 #7 November 24, 2006 Owning a chest and hip ring harness, and having jumped a non chest ring harness, i can say the difference is comfort and manouverabilty. Chest ring allows for more flexibility. But that is just my experience. PS its just my opinion, im not a riggerSome dream of flying, i live the dream... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wonder2006 0 #8 November 24, 2006 Don't get chest rings if you've got boobies! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #9 November 24, 2006 Why is that? What is the connection between bra/cup size and chest rings? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakyrat 1 #10 November 24, 2006 Not being a rigger guy but an owner of my first chest ring harness and container (Mirage G-4.1) I can say a couple of things. It's comfortable and the most important thing for me was that Jeffrey fixed mine in about a half hour as my MLW was a little bit short. It was very easy to remove and replace the center pieces between the chest and hip rings with ones that were slightly longer. Try that with a standard harness. The container is broken in now and fits just great. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #11 November 24, 2006 I've only jumpes rigs with chestrings that were slightly too big (mainly a bit too wide) for me. Result: I had to pull the chestrap just about as tight as it would go, meaning the mlw now had a fairly big angle. If I do the same with another same-size harness that doesn't have the chest rings, the harness does not distort as much, hardly any distortion really. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivex3m 0 #12 November 25, 2006 thanks for the answers everyone.. I'll get to my friend again and tell him what you have written... any one else who feel like they have anything to say about the subject??https://icarusanddaedalusadventures.blogspot.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeffrey 1 #13 November 25, 2006 QuoteDon't get chest rings if you've got boobies!wonder2006, Now look what you made me go and do, repost a pic. This photo without a doubt has got to be my favorite chest-rings harness photo I have ever seen. And by the way, as much as my job sucks all too often, I do occasionally get to help ensure jumpers like sweet ranchgirl here harness fits perfect. Jeff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #14 November 26, 2006 What chest rings? I don't see any chest rings! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #15 November 26, 2006 QuoteWhat chest rings? I don't see any chest rings! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #16 November 26, 2006 QuoteI own a Micron and would not have to worry about the chest rings option, but a friend of mine asked me about pro's and con's regarding chest rings. I would like some info from you rigger guys... Some people feel chest rings affect negatively on harness inputs to the canopy.. Also, I always get some sort of shivers when I see someone headdown and the MLW has slipped off another shoulder.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeffrey 1 #17 November 26, 2006 I always get some sort of shivers when I see someone headdown and the MLW has slipped off another shoulder.. You are not alone in that thinking. Even though the additional articulation chest rings provide will allow shoulder pads to slide in and out more easily, there are many other factors at play here. Harness fit and how it’s put on are two big factors. For example, the worst extreme case of this is when a jumper has a slightly too large harness with a chest strap that sits low and the rig also sits low on the back. I don’t care what type of harness; this harness fit combination in a head down is not good. I’m not the person who sizes harnesses here but I often get handed the difficult fit problems and can say the most important thing for jumpers who do head down is to have a rig that stays up high on your back. If it doesn’t, then it’s not balanced right for head down dives. If after hiking your rig up, then tightening your chest and leg straps, you can easily pull your shoulder pads off when the weight of you rig is lifted. Then that harness is too big somewhere and the same can happen in a head down dive. If you’re not following me here, try this: 1. Take any rig and sit it on the floor, standing up on its BOC. 2. Looking at it from the side, hold the harness by the ring cover and shape as if being worn. 3. Now move it up and down to simulate the rig high on the back and low. Notice how when the rig is simulated to sit low, the separation of the shoulder pads are capable of being at its greatest. This may be ok for some body shapes but not all. I once had a very experienced high profile jumper come in my office complaining of this problem. Armed with video and laptop, he proceeded to play it and in 3 seconds I noticed he never tightened his chest strap, at all. End of problem and 2 identically sized rigs later, still no problem and one happy camper. I wish they all could be that easy. I don’t get the opportunity to get out much but a month ago, while on an out of town business trip I spent a couple of days at a boogie going on at one of the local drop zones. I made many observations, but the 2 that stood out the most is: 1. Dam, I need to get out more. 2. I really couldn’t believe how poorly many harnesses fit some of the jumper’s. Jeff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
