skydiverek 63 #1 December 5, 2006 Here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=649 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeffrey 1 #2 December 5, 2006 First, we do not believe the Mirage Reserve Pilot Chute has contributed in any way of damaging the loop mentioned SB AMM021206/1. Secondly, let me say no harness and container manufacturer should ever have to learn of an AAD manufacture PSB release by receiving a phone call from Skydiving Magazine. Mr. Goorts did visit me on 09 Nov. 06 and among the many topics discussed was a report from the Chuting Star loft of this damaged loop. He felt that perhaps our Pilot Chute may have been a contributing factor. The conversation then turned to his new and improved cutter and that he wanted to do the right thing and release a PSB. I admired him wanting to do the right thing. But was in no position to admit or deny whether I felt our Reserve Pilot Chute was a contributing factor. Now after researching the issue we do not believe the Mirage Reserve Pilot Chute has contributed in any way of damaging the loop mentioned SB AMM021206/1. Perhaps if Mr. Goorts had the courtesy to have allowed me to read his PSB prior to its release to compare notes, I wouldn’t have to be posting this right now. Jeff Johnston Mirage Systems, Inc. Ph: 386-740-9222 Fax: 386-740-9444 jeff@miragesys.com www.miragesys.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIGGER 0 #3 December 6, 2006 Did you approved the use of the Argus AAD in the Mirage before you met Mr. Goorts ? The damage was from the cutter insert & not from the p/c, the Argus cutter has a kind of an insert like the old VIGIL cutters has. I have all Mirage here after SB 12/04 all with Cypres AAD & never had a problem with the loop. Any cutter with a plastic insert should be away from over the p/c cutter location or at all. If the Argus was set into a Mirage without your approval this is a violation of the mfg. manual. Safe Rigging !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #4 December 6, 2006 QuoteAny cutter with a plastic insert should be away from over the p/c cutter location or at all. Shlomo - please elaborate on this.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutingstar 1 #5 December 7, 2006 QuoteDid you approved the use of the Argus AAD in the Mirage before you met Mr. Goorts ? If the Argus was set into a Mirage without your approval this is a violation of the mfg. manual. See this letter from Mirage dated 29Sep06 that is available on the Argus web site and approves the installation in Mirage when following the Argus manual: http://www.argus-aad.com/media/Downloads/Mirage%20Argus%20Approval%20Letter.pdf The cutter insert was damaged at some point during the compression of closing or by the loop rubbing against the insert. The insert obviously was not very durable, hence the service bulletin and change in cutters. While this instance did occur in a Mirage, I don't think the problem is limited to a Mirage, or to any rig with the cutter located between the PC grommet and a flap grommet. It's definitely a location that leaves the cutter more prone to damage, but this old Argus cutter in other rigs and in other locations could have the same fate. I would like to see Argus replace all of its older cutters with inserts with the new insertless cutter...and I think you'll see that. MikeChutingStar.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wardhessig 0 #6 December 7, 2006 Actually, If you'll read the entire PSB put out by Argus and not just the tiny excerpt that is on the first page of dropzone.com you will see that all Argus cutters are being recalled. It isn't a mirage issue, it is a cutter issue, hence the recall of all the cutters in the field. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutingstar 1 #7 December 7, 2006 The service bulletin isn't all that clear in its present form...because in the first line the subject title states "Mandatory cutter replacement in Mirage rigs." and then states later in the background section that "...we decided to replace the cutters in all the Mirage rigs..." But then in the comments section of the service bulletin, it states "...all Argus cutters manufactured before November 2006...must be mandatory replaced..." But is that referring to cutters just in Mirage rigs or all rigs? I think the language in the beginning of the bulletin just needs to be cleaned up...and I've talked to Karel about that...so it's clear that the company does want to replace ALL older Argus cutters in ALL rigs...and that this is because of an issue that first came to its attention in a Mirage rig...but could occur in other rigs. Blah, blah, blah...etc., etc., etc. Does this all make sense? MikeChutingStar.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USPA 0 #8 December 7, 2006 I just recieved the following reply from Aviacom: Quote Cutter alleen in Mirage op korte tijd vervangen worden. Andere moeten voor 30 juni of voor bij eerste repack vervangen worden. Is kosteloos mits inleveren ‘oude’ cutter. Dus eerste vervangingen zijn ‘voorbehouden’ voor Mirage in afwachting bijkomende nieuwe cutters. Only in the mirage cutter has to be replaced on short notice. Others have to be replaced for 30th june, or at first repack. Replacement is at no cost, as long as old cutter is send to us. First replacement are "reserved" for Mirage pending new cutters.The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutingstar 1 #9 December 7, 2006 Karel and William at ARGUS are updating the service bulletin right now, which should be released shortly...and it will clearly address all its older-style cutters. But basically, any Argus installed in a rig that has the old-style cutter between the PC and flap grommet should be replaced before the next jump. All other rigs with other cutter locations should have the old-style Argus cutter replaced at the next repack. MikeChutingStar.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeffrey 1 #10 December 7, 2006 Quote Shlomo, No, Mr. Goorts visited me April 18, 2006 to discuss compatibility and my approving the Argus in a Mirage. Over 5 months followed before granting his request. I wander how many Argus AAD’s had already been sold to Mirage owners prior to April 18, 2006. Jeff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #11 December 7, 2006 any idea which rigs that would be? ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIGGER 0 #12 December 7, 2006 The issues regarding cutters with a plastic insert were known before Sept.29, 2006 (Mirage letter) & even during the time that Mirage examined the Argus fitting into the Mirage h/c. The Vigil & Argus cutter plastic insert are almost the same & the Vigil cutter issues started few month ago, some were related to the quality of the plastic & the finish work & some were related to the "in between grommets" setting. Any h/c mfg. that approved the Vigil & Argus cutters in the time when the issue was known should re-think about that. The issue is not for the Mirage only but is a basic issue with these inserts. Safe Rigging !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 26 #13 December 7, 2006 We've changed the headline on our article to remove the mention of Mirage. Our apologies to them for contributing to this confusion. We've also included the full text (no images) from the service bulletin in our article and, while Dropzone.com will not edit the subject of the formal service bulletin, we do think it can be misleading and have added the following Editors Note at the bottom of the article: QuoteDropzone.com Editors Note: Please note that while the official subject of this service bulleting is "Mandatory cutter replacement in Mirage rigs" that in fact "all Argus cutters manufactured before November 2006 and not sporting a safety seal on the body must be mandatory replaced", as mentioned in the comments in the full bulletin. The subject is confusing at the very least. Please download the entire Service Bulleting from the link above and read this forum post for a response from Mirage Systems.Safe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIGGER 0 #14 December 7, 2006 In the past month since April o6 the plastic insert issues were known & reported. It should be considered by Mirage in the 5 month passed till the final approval of the Argus into the Mirage h/c mostly because of SB 12/04 mod. Safe Rigging !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeffrey 1 #15 December 7, 2006 QuoteThe Vigil & Argus cutter plastic insert are almost the same Shlomo, Not trying to defend the Argus cutter but, the Vigil & Argus cutter plastic inserts are not ever close to the same. Jeff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIGGER 0 #16 December 7, 2006 Maybe not the same look but the same issues. Cheers Shlomo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutingstar 1 #17 December 13, 2006 Argus has released an updated service bulletin for all of its cutters mfd. before Nov. 2006. This bulletin is more clear in its scope. This Argus service bulletin affects all Argus cutters in all rigs. See this link to the pdf file: http://www.argus-aad.com/media/Bulletins/SBAMM021206_2.pdf MikeChutingStar.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
