Spectre Malfunctions?

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey everyone,

I read another thread a bit ago and it made me think of a question. The Spectre is known as a very gentle opening canopy.

I was curious as to what type of malfunctions anyone has had on a Spectre and what it was like.

Please include the canopy size, loading and your experience at the time. Then describe the mal and whether it resulted in a reserve ride or not etc. I'm just curious because I've never really came across anyone that has had a mal on a Spectre.

I jump a 135 loaded at about 1:1 and I've never had so much as line twists (Knock on wood). I'm mostly curious if they tend to dive in a mal or if they fly nice and straight. Obviously the type of mal changes this, but I mean in a situation of severe line twists, will it fly straight or what?

Thanks

I know I have some weird questions, but I'm just very curious and like to know how things work.

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[nate_1979 9]

Keep in mind that every malfunction is somewhat unique... Just because you might not have someone post saying that they had a spectre with line twist that started diving does not mean that it couldnt happen.... A canopy deployment is chaotic and anything can happen.

That aside, I have never had anything even as minor as line twist under my Spectre... it's a damn good canopy, but I'm always ready for that hell ride towards the ground spinning on my back at 90mph

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[mbondvegas 0]

Quote

Hey everyone,

I read another thread a bit ago and it made me think of a question. The Spectre is known as a very gentle opening canopy.

I was curious as to what type of malfunctions anyone has had on a Spectre and what it was like.

Please include the canopy size, loading and your experience at the time. Then describe the mal and whether it resulted in a reserve ride or not etc. I'm just curious because I've never really came across anyone that has had a mal on a Spectre.

I jump a 135 loaded at about 1:1 and I've never had so much as line twists (Knock on wood). I'm mostly curious if they tend to dive in a mal or if they fly nice and straight. Obviously the type of mal changes this, but I mean in a situation of severe line twists, will it fly straight or what?

Thanks

I know I have some weird questions, but I'm just very curious and like to know how things work.

Chris

If this is what sparked your question http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2593258;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

My Spectre Mal was due to a line over that only allowed 1/2 of the canopy to fully inflate.

No canopy (no matter how well designed or docile) will treat you nice in this situation. The Spectre I was on was a 210 loaded just over 1:1 and it had me spinning on my back really quickly.

Edited to add: The Spectre is a great canopy with super soft opening and great flare.

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I am not afraid of tomorrow, for I have seen yesterday and I love today.

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey,

I realize full well that any mal can react differently. I posted the question more to find out what kind of mals Spectres had.

I was actually curious one day and thought about trying to put my dbag in with intentional line twists just to see how a small canopy would act under line twists. I only wanted to do it to have the experience under controlled circumstances, but quickly decided that I shouldn't push my luck and involve any more risk than I have to. I'm sure I'll get line twists at some point anyways. The only other canopy I've had line twists on was the Manta 288, and I simply kicked them out while the canopy flew.

I was mostly looking for something that would show the characteristics of the Spectre. Like "Spinetto" for the Stiletto. My question has no scientific backing, just curiosity. Like for example, if the Spectre gets line twists, does it normally keep twisting, or does it just fly straight while you kick them out. Again, i realize the type of mal determines this.


And yes, that was the thread I was referring to. I realize a lineover can be very different from one to another, but that's more of a packing error. I realize that any canopy that is half collapsed is going to dive and spin.

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[skybytch 273]

I had an opening hard enough to break two D lines. 850 jumps at the time; loaded about 1.1 on a Spectre 170. I chose to land it, which I don't recommend.

I've had line twists five times on my current Spectre 170 (loaded about 1.0, I had 950-1000 jumps) - all on wingsuit jumps (my bad for poor deployment position). It flies straight with five or six line twists.

[dragon2 2]

I used to fly a spectre 135 at 1.15-1.2. Had a few linetwists when starting wingsuit jumping but the spectre always behaved, I rarely had to kick/twist to get out of the linetwists even with linetwists from top to bottom, as the canopy would unwind itself while I was unzipping my wings
Had to chop it once though on a belly jump, no idea what the malfuction was but it opened "funny", turned about 90o then dove to the horizon. It had 1 or 2 twists in it but couldn't figure out anything else as I was lowish already so had to chop it (while telling it to behave as it was a %^&& SPECTRE! ).

Had another reserve ride while jumping the spectre, or TRYING to jump it as I could not get my pilotchute out of the pocket. Not the spectre's fault

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[bofh 0]

A couple of years ago a new jumper at my DZ had such a hard opening with a spectre (150 or 170, I don't remember) that he fractured some ribs, punctured one lung and lost his memory from the break until the helicopter picked him up for transport to the hospital.

Some of the line attachment points had tears in them, but the lines were intact and he managed to land it, except that he fainted when he started to flare.

I don't remember exactly what the investigation's conclusion was, but I think they believed that he had pulled while unstable and after a steep track.

[freeflysteve 0]

Same for me but on a spectre 150 loaded 1:1
Didnt close my legs!! on deployment went head down spinning really fast ,really freaky opening at least 6 twists and then the canopy flew straight,wont do that again in a hurry.
Awesome video and the speed i dropped away from my wingsuit instructor was amazing,guess thats why i still deploy at 5k when winsuit flying.

Swooping, huh? I love that stuff ... all the flashing lights and wailing sirens ... it's very exciting!

[peregrinerose 0]

I fly a Spectre 150 at about 1.1/1, about 250 jumps on it. I had wicked line twists once... on a night jump. That was my own fault. It was a three way, we did everything we planned to do, so spun the round just for fun. I was the one designated to pull at 5K, didn't realize I was still turning a bit when I pulled. But the canopy flew straight, and I had plenty of time to kick out since I pulled that high to begin with.

Only other one was a jump in CO that gave me insta canopy, I couldn't move anything for several seconds, just limp in the harness. That scared me a bit. I was lucky, no permanent damage. Every other open has been fine though.

Both of those issues could have happened on any canopy though, neither was a unique to spectre issue.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Thanks everyone, this is exactly what I was looking for. Just some experiences with Spectres. I knew full well that a lineover that has half your canopy collapsed is not likely going to be flying nice and straight...Spectre or not.

I'm really surprised about the crackers though. For those of you who have had one on a Spectre, do you think it was packing error or "it just happened". I mean, any canopy with a collapsed slider is gonna slam you, but I'm curious if it's packing technique or what. I simply propack mine, do absolutely nothing to the nose and wrap her up. Hse's been good to me, except I tend to have off heading openings once in a while. I think this is totally my fault as I use my knee to hold the canopy when I bring the tail around. I haven't checked it out yet, but next time I'm packing, I'm going to pay attention to the nose and see if I'm pushing an end cell outwards when I wrap the tail. It is flying great through the snivel, but once the slider drops to about 3/4 from the top and the canopy finally does it's final "pop", it tends to swing me one way or another, most often to the right. Could be body lean in the harness too.

Thanks again!

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[Remster 30]

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I'm really surprised about the crackers though.

Any canopy can give you a hard opening.

Remster

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Oh, 100% agreed, but I'm surprised for the fact that I've never heard of it in any of the threads where you might think it would come up. I think I'm the only one with a Spectre at my DZ, so I doubt to hear it there...I would more likely "feel" it.

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[MagicGuy 0]

I've heard of Spectres slamming people before. I have a Triathlon and I've been slammed by it.

I flew a Spectre for 5 jumps loaded at .8:1 and it was a sweet canopy. For it's size it was pretty zippy in the air, great flare-power. I liked it a lot.

[skybytch 273]

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I've heard of Spectres slamming people before. I have a Triathlon and I've been slammed by it.

Contact Aerodyne and ask if they still have copies of their Tri packing video. A friend of mine had numerous whackers on a Tri until she watched the video and started packing it the way they show.

As for the spanking I got on my old Spectre, there's no way to know for sure what caused it. My guess would be line dump, possibly caused by not doubling the rubber band on the last few stows. The canopy had 1100 jumps on it and needed a new lineset, but I have no idea if that contributed to the slammer.

[druvaughn 0]

I have put 250 jumps on a Spectre 230 loaded 1.3/1.

I have had a couple hard openings, but nothing that broke bones or lines.

I have had some lines twists, never more than 900 degrees. Each time the canopy flew straight and level and I was able to kick out. I would slowly turn if I loaded one side of the harness, so I didn't make a habit of that in twists.

Hope it helps.

Happy New Year!!!

Dru

-
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"Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical."

[dragon2 2]

Come to think of it, I sold my spectre 135 to one of our camera guys, a fairly heavy guy. He had weird/hard openings with it every 3 jumps or so. I was like "WHAT? With MY Spectre????" Yeah with my spectre, saw a few of those openings on video, pretty weird (snivel snivel left-right-BAM - type openings)..... it does need a reline pretty bad though and he loads it pretty heavy so I'm attributing the weird openings to that!

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[aeronaut 1]

Quote

Come to think of it, I sold my spectre 135 to one of our camera guys, a fairly heavy guy. He had weird/hard openings with it every 3 jumps or so. I was like "WHAT? With MY Spectre????" Yeah with my spectre, saw a few of those openings on video, pretty weird (snivel snivel left-right-BAM - type openings)..... it does need a reline pretty bad though and he loads it pretty heavy so I'm attributing the weird openings to that!

i made the same experience with a Spectre 135 (WL 1.45) . if you do only normal pro-pack , it has a very fast inflation but it can be managed by doing some different packing method with the slider and the nose of the parachute.

i made 140 jumps with a Spectre 150 (WL 1.3). never had a bad opening.

i have only heard from two other skydivers about Spectre malfunctions in relation to being out of trim, then you will have bad openings. so, this parachute don`t like that (as other parachutes too)

[azureriders 0]

350+ jumps on a spectre 230 loading at 1.2+ between jump #30 and #400.
Line twist a few times long ago but it always flew straight.
One line over, over the left end cell during snivel, cleared itself upon full inflation.
One hard opening, hard enough to be noted but I had forgot about it by the time I landed.
One spinning opening, the only thing I could find wrong was an end cell closure, a good flare fixed the spin and the end cell.
Another spin from a break fire.
Jump #249 Broken stearing line just below the cascade, the uper stearing lines then entangled with most of the right line set keeping that side from inflating and the only time I had to cut it away.
The replaced stearing line had a somewhat oversized cats eye which I allowed to slip over the toggle gromet and therefore leaving the break unable to be unstowed after deployment. Landed with rear risers and the left stearing line wraped around my hand, and a PLFAs it has been stated in other threads here, the spectre does tend to open in a kind of surging stall when it is out of trim, but I have never had one of those cause any problems.
A great canopy, I love mine.

[azureriders 0]

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if you do only normal pro-pack , it has a very fast inflation but it can be managed by doing some different packing method with the slider and the nose of the parachute.

Pro Pack or Pyshco Pack, I do nothing at all special to my pack jobs, no rolling or pushing of the nose or tail. Make sure the slider is quartered and against the stops and shove it in the bag for consistant 750-850ft openings.

[bob.dino 1]

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The canopy had 1100 jumps on it and needed a new lineset, but I have no idea if that contributed to the slammer.

It's my belief that being out of trim does contribute to weird openings. However, someone more qualified than I (riggerrob, masterigger1, sparky, etc) can comment?

[peregrinerose 0]

My best guess on my smacker open was in part higher altitude than my home dropzone (this was at Mile High, in CO). Maybe I didn't stop tracking long enough?

I know of 2 people that had compression fractures from getting smacked by a spectre open, but I don't think it's a spectre thing.. any canopy can do that.

One smack out of almot 300 jumps now on that canopy isn't too bad, I'm happy to consider it a fluke.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[jwynne 0]

I've got a lot of spectre jumps, no chops. I have a friend that chopped a spinner due to a toggle fire. I've dealt with numerous toggle fires on opening myself. Needed to replace risers to correct that. I did have some harder openings that seemed to coincide with lines getting out of trim. It still opened fine if I packed, but got much less forgiving of fast paid pack jobs. Relined it's back to nice soft reliable openings regardless of who packed it. I love my spectre. Opens with line twists, no problem. It'll just keep flying while you kick out of them.

[Guest 1010]

150 jumps on my Spectre 190 @ 1.1 ... no mals, but one slammer opening 30 jumps ago (jump 185 or so), due to packing, and headdown body position and still being a little bit in a track didn't help things eother

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[porpoishead 8]

spectre 210
d.o.m. aug2006
W/L 1.03:1
tot # jumps 17

on #11, my 42nd jump I had a linetwist (4 wraps) canopy was fully inflated and flying straight , it was between 800-900ft opening, I kicked out, finished housekeeping, and had a good canopy in 1000-1100ft. pulled @3500ft was in business by 2500ft. I attribute the linetwist to a less than optimum body position during deployment. the canopy was solid/stable,and flyin straight throughout the situation.

jumps 1-5 on it had some long snivels resulting in a couple 1000ft plus openings, longest being between 1100-1200ft. one psycho pack resulted in 750-850ft opening, the rest pro-packs that are now giving me consistent 800-900ft openings. all openings except for a couple in the begining have been on heading, since I started taking 3 cells on each side and tucking them in toward the center cell **(not rolling them)and keeping the center cell exposed just to keep the nose symetric, and not fall one way or the other when cocooning.

soft opening, rock solid, very responsive, canopy, with a very powerful flare. be prepared to talk it through some of them long ass snivels.

awesome canopy, I love mine.

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[gdmusumeci 0]

I have about 200 jumps on a 210 loaded at about 1.1:1. The Spectre is a very versatile canopy, amenable to light CRW if that's your thing, and I generally like mine quite a lot. I'll probably order a 190 soon.

I've had one reserve ride, involving damaged lower control lines, a low-ish pull, and some wicked line twists. The canopy had been telling me something was screwed up for quite a while (opening in a stall) and I just didn't understand the message. I kept meaning to measure the lines and never got around to it... there's a lesson to learn there.

Anyways, I had the canopy relined with Dacron, which fixed the problem. The openings are even nicer now!