Jav owners

[GQ_jumper 4]

Do you have any gripes or complaints about your harness/container? I'm buying two this year and I kow there's plenty of great things about htem but I wanted to see if anyone has anything bad to say about em.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

The looks from everyone who's jealous? Just joking!

The only problem I've seen is withhow tight the main tray is. I had an issue with towing my parachute, turns out the container was squeezing the dbag and holiding it there for a few seconds. That's not the container's fault entirely though. I'm light and it only happens on low speed H+P's. My container is sized for a 150 and I have a Spectre 135 in there, so I don't think it's too tight.

Anyways, I have nothing but good to say and I've only really had the oppurtunity to close 2 other types of containers. One was the Sidewinder on the student rigs, and another earlier Jav so my experience is limited.

Hope that helps!

Only reason I'd consider buying something else at this point would be a Vector for the Skyhook. I'll be very excited to see some of the RSL equipped rigs from the other manufactures and if they perform as well.

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[bliston 0]

I've owned wings, javs, racers, and vectors. I think Javs are great, but I've seen the following issues come up -

1. Main flaps sometimes open up (you see this from time to time on video of 4-way climb outs)
2. Plastic on the riser covers sometimes crack (magnets on the new vectors solve this)
3. They use lighter webbing throughout the harness, which is plenty strong and makes it comfortable - which is good, but they don't seem to be quite as durable (long term) as some other containers.
4. If the reserves aren't closed well, the pilot chute material works it's way out (I personally prefer internal reserve PCs)

Those comments aside, they're great looking, have a great resale value, and are super comfortable.

Ben

Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website


sticks!

[GQ_jumper 4]

cool, that's what I was looking for thanks guys, so pretty much you'e saying that overall you're happy with it, they just have their little quirks like any other rig?

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[johnny1488 1]

The main flap doesnt open up if the main is packed properly.

The reserve p/c material doesnt work its way out if packed properly.

The main complaint I have about my Javy is the hip articulation. The location of the hip ring on javys (as well as vectors) is useless. The new location of the ring on Infinities (same as mirage) is the proper place to articulate the harness if you dont want herness flex and kinking.

I have a new Infinity also and am much happier with that. It is a much cleaner rig. Also more comfortable with Kelly's new cut in system. Very trick.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[headoverheels 333]

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The main flap doesnt open up if the main is packed properly.

When I got my older Javelin, the main flap was too long. No way it would stay closed. I sent it back. Derek called and said that he didn't see any problem. I told him to take 5/8" off (I hadn't really measured, so I didn't want to say to take more) and send it back. The flap was still slightly long, but pretty much okay. They didn't even bother to cut back the under flap, so I always had to fold it's edge under. Delivery was late. (IIRC, about 13 weeks late). The design of the riser covers was such that the stiffeners took a bend, then wouldn't stay in very well. This was somewhat attributed to reserve packing -- a good pack job wouldn't do, it had to be very good. A better design doesn't have the problem.

That said, I have no other complaints with the function or durability of the rig. I put about 1250 jumps on it, and sold it in good shape. I just think that there are better alternatives.

[jedeisurf 0]

Try the Wings rings are at the right place and is very confortable.
David

[johnny1488 1]

i can keep mine closed.

That said I think the New Infinity main flap is far superior to the javelin. Partly due to the fact that they have the closing loop on the bottom flap.

The Infinity is the most secure closing flap of any rig on the market right now, bar none. Their harness rocks and overall is an amazing rig. Best on the market in my opinion.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[crazydiver 0]

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Do you have any gripes or complaints about your harness/container? I'm buying two this year and I kow there's plenty of great things about htem but I wanted to see if anyone has anything bad to say about em.

I've owned four different javelins/odysseys from the old style Javelin to the newest style of Odyssey which I have now. Reserve closing and packing is easy and straight forward for your rigger (if it looks shitty, its your riggers fault...same goes for mirages, vectors, wings, and others...just because the PC is under all the flaps doesn't mean its easier to make look good). I have seen some Mirage reserve pin covers RUINED over time due to improper bulk placement and forcing the flap to permanently curve.

Harness is super comfortable...bar none.

The early javelin I owned didn't have as secure main and reserve pin protection, but if you are buying new...they are super secure and will never come open in freefall.

I like having the reserve PC pop-top partially exposed rather than under all the flaps like other rigs.

Harness is PLENTY strong...other manufacturers (such as mirage) heavily overbuild their harnesses. This is not a bad thing at all, but unnecessary with modern gear and canopies.

My personal favorite containers are Odysseys, Mirages, and Infinities. Everything else on the market is just fine, those three are simply my preferences. I will, however, generally not recommend Wings for their reserve system. They have very weak PC springs. I've also pulled Wings reserves and had the spring actually invert (turn upside down)...this is not something I like to see when pulling a reserve. Wings are also very tricky to get to look good when packing the reserve.


Jav's are super nice rigs and extremely comfortable. Enjoy.

Cheers,
Travis

[dorbie 0]

No skyhook... yet.

[GQ_jumper 4]

thanks for the replies everyone, i'll find some people about my size and try on a few different ones.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[crazydiver 0]

I've got two odysseys you can try on...I think we're about the same size...6 ft. tall 185 pounds...you're just more ripped than me!

Cheers,
Travis

[MotherGoose 0]

I like the Jav overall, but it could definitely use some secondary main riser covers. Seems the reserve tray and the riser covers don't quite merge tightly and it always leaves a bit of exposure to the risers and toggles. Not something you want to see when you freefly often. Not a big deal though and easily fixed by the mfr if they wanted to. Also, not a big fan of the location of the closiing loop.

Edit : While I love everything that Relative Workshop or UPT are doing in terms of safety and innovation, something they clearly lead the market in, no doubt. When it comes down to looks, they just don't cut it. The new vectors are way too bulky in the lower half of the container. Jav's and Infinity's are frontrunners in the aesthetics department. Perhaps they can trade some design features for the skyhook patent ?? Maybe the magnetic riser covers as well ?? Just a thought.

You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

[riggerrob 643]

... Perhaps they can trade some design features for the skyhook patent ?? Maybe the magnetic riser covers as well ?? Just a thought.

[riggerrob 643]

Wings are also very tricky to get to look good when packing the reserve.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Wings and Javelin share 90 percent of reserve packing techniques. Any rigger - that pack a pretty Javelin - should also be able to pack a pretty Wings.

My personal peeve is the too-tiny reserve side flaps on the smaller: Javelins, Wings, Mirage and Vortex. This makes them doubly difficult to close, difficult to make them look pretty and tempts the rigger to install a longer-than-healthy closing loop. Too long a closing loop can introduce other problems/malfunctions.

[MotherGoose 0]

rob, do you have any opinions on why the new vector main trays are so bulky? In comparison to something like a Jav for instance?

You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

[teason 0]

Well, AFIAK, RWS doesn't own the patent for the magnetic covers, they are just paying to use it.

Now here's the thing I don't get, you can't patent use! If you could, I could patent using water to wash with and make millions! The magnetic riser covers use regular magnets manufactured at a variety of places. They just put them into their yoke and covers. I'm sure they are paying Atair because it's cheaper than fighting a law suit even if Atair hasn't a hope of winning. A patent on Magnet use would be like a patent on velcro use or tucktab use (note that it is use and not design which would be an infringement) If RWS bought the patent, they're nuts!

The other day I was in the Fossil Factory outlet in St. Augustine. They had wallets, cases and boxes which all used magnets a closure. It's been around for years.

Ant patent lawyers out there?

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[crazydiver 0]

Quote

Wings are also very tricky to get to look good when packing the reserve.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Wings and Javelin share 90 percent of reserve packing techniques. Any rigger - that pack a pretty Javelin - should also be able to pack a pretty Wings.

My personal peeve is the too-tiny reserve side flaps on the smaller: Javelins, Wings, Mirage and Vortex. This makes them doubly difficult to close, difficult to make them look pretty and tempts the rigger to install a longer-than-healthy closing loop. Too long a closing loop can introduce other problems/malfunctions.

I agree that packing techniques are similar on the Javelin and Wings. I would disagree about feeling that the side flaps are too small on them. I definetly feel they are on a mirage, but a good rigger should know how to use them. But the javelins and the wings...I can close the two side flaps without a tension device and by simply pulling them together using the pullup cord.

Cheers,
Travis

[crazydiver 0]

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I like the Jav overall, but it could definitely use some secondary main riser covers. Seems the reserve tray and the riser covers don't quite merge tightly and it always leaves a bit of exposure to the risers and toggles. Not something you want to see when you freefly often. Not a big deal though and easily fixed by the mfr if they wanted to. Also, not a big fan of the location of the closiing loop.

I've never had a problem with risers being exposed or becoming exposed on any of the javelins i've owned.

The closing loop placement is advantagous because it allows the user to adjust the tension on the main pin allowing a greater range of pack volumes in the container. This is in contrast to a container with the loop on the bottom flap. Once you get to where the grommets are all meeting up and you can't make the loop any smaller, you have yourself too little tension on the main closing loop, thus asking for a premature deployment. A javelin will ALMOST always keep proper tension on the main pin.

Cheers,
Travis

[johnny1488 1]

The "advantageous" placement of the main closing loop also keeps the main pic cover from closing as well as the infinity.

I used to think the inside placement was better, but after seeing the new infinitys, having the loop on the bottom flap makes for a much more secure main flap.

But yes, you can put a much smaller canopy in a javy and have good pin tension. But the main flap could very well be open during your jump in such a configuration.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[GQ_jumper 4]

you're just more ripped than me!

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yeah it's true, I look good, I mean REAL GOOD

I'll catch up with you if I can make my way up there before I take off, thanx

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

• Quote

[bofh 0]

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The closing loop placement is advantagous because it allows the user to adjust the tension on the main pin allowing a greater range of pack volumes in the container.

Perhaps this has changed with newer models, my Javelin J1 is from -98, but what I don't like about the closing loop placement is the fact that it forms a gap when the loop is pulled up towards the top of the container during packing. That gap in turn sometimes catches some lines when I put down the bag (I insert it with the lines towards the ground, then turn it to get the lines towards the bottom). Its not a big deal, just lift the bag, check the lines and put it down again. I'm sure there is a good reason for this design, but from a packing point of view I would have wanted to have it turned 180 degrees so that gap was closed by the loop during packing.