Things every newbie sould know? Please help a bit.

[autoset 0]

Hello everybody I have a few pretty basic questions every skydiver has had when entering the sport, please enlight me/us a little.


-I have read adventures from people downsizing from a big canopy to a smaller "performance" canopy, being the biggest canopies for students/tandems and the smallest for professionals in the sport. Is there a limit for the biggest/smallest canopy in the market? (do you measure them by square-feet or number of air cells?)


-I have also read very good things about these Vector rigs, specially Vector 3, since its the only model in the market in which you can apply the Skyhook according to RelativeWork shop, my question is, if this Vector 3 parachute is so good why doesn't everybody have one? Is it because the price?

If you could give some hints about parachute brands in todays market that would be really nice. Like which brand of rigs is the "best/worst" according to the skydiving community?

So far I have heard about the Vector, and Mirage, and nothing else.


-Usually which one is the smallest canopy? the main or the reserve? or it depends?


-Is this the standard opening sequence in most parachutes? Do students use this type of deployment?
Please see Pictures:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1225/openingsequence1uh7.png

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/957/openingsequence2ts5.png

[Andy_Copland 0]

Javelin is the best container by miles

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[councilman24 37]

To many questions to answer now. Order a Paragear catalog just so you have a fairly complete, but not complete, reference of equipment. I still use my 25 year library of catalogs as reference.

But, please remember that parachute gear is MARKETED. I find many of the opinions I hear seem to be the product of marketing or biased recommendations, not objective review. Just like cars their are "Ford" people, "Chevy" people, "MOPAR" people, "BMW" people etc.

One of the few substantive differences is that the Skyhook is proprietary, currently, to the inventor's equipment, Vectors. I don't consider this enough reason to make the choice automatic.

Most of the gear works, companies have different personalities and features, and there are regional or dropzone "preferences".

Advice that says "X" is the ONLY one to buy isn't particularly helpful.

Unless I give it!

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Froggy 0]

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-Is this the standard opening sequence in most parachutes? Do students use this type of deployment?
Please see Pictures:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1225/openingsequence1uh7.png

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/957/openingsequence2ts5.png

What's shown on the second picture (top part of it) is a good chance of getting a horseshoe malfunction... You got the main idea right, but the pin shouldn't get pulled from the closing loop until the PC is in the airstream, inflated and at the bridle stretch. Your pic shows it being pulled by the bridle while the PC is still in your hand -- BAD thing...

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We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

[johnny1488 1]

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Javelin is the best container by miles

I'll go toe to toe to you about this, but thats for another place.

As far as what a newbie should know, make friends with some expeirienced jumpers.

Talk to people when you think of trying something new.

Use the proper gear for what you are doing. (ie freeflying)

Take an intrest in canopy control. Make it part of every skydive to learn and or practice something new.

Learn cool phrases like :

It's better to be on the ground, wishing you were in the air, than it is to be in the air, wishing you were on the ground.

and

Better a long walk than a short ambulance ride.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[stayhigh 2]

by the look of pic i think he just created new system...
i ll call this boc/pull out system...

i wonder if bill booth is interested in this revolutionary concept...

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[autoset 0]

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-Is this the standard opening sequence in most parachutes? Do students use this type of deployment?
Please see Pictures:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1225/openingsequence1uh7.png

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/957/openingsequence2ts5.png

What's shown on the second picture (top part of it) is a good chance of getting a horseshoe malfunction... You got the main idea right, but the pin shouldn't get pulled from the closing loop until the PC is in the airstream, inflated and at the bridle stretch. Your pic shows it being pulled by the bridle while the PC is still in your hand -- BAD thing...

Damn really? I always thought that was the most popular way of deployment, it took me 20mins to draw that picture, so you mean the only difference is that the pilot chute is the one who pulls the pin out thanks to the airstream?

I dont know man but from a newbie perspective, if you pull the pilot chute to the air in a lazy way it might not inflate(PC in tow) and not have enough force to take the pin out resulting in a total malfunction.

Anyway the way I drew the picture is the way I always thought the parachutes were deployed, you have 2 oppotunities, you can pull with enough strength to take the pin out, if that fails, just pray that the airstream does it for you.

[MakeItHappen 15]

Quote

Quote

Quote

-Is this the standard opening sequence in most parachutes? Do students use this type of deployment?
Please see Pictures:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1225/openingsequence1uh7.png

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/957/openingsequence2ts5.png

What's shown on the second picture (top part of it) is a good chance of getting a horseshoe malfunction... You got the main idea right, but the pin shouldn't get pulled from the closing loop until the PC is in the airstream, inflated and at the bridle stretch. Your pic shows it being pulled by the bridle while the PC is still in your hand -- BAD thing...

Damn really? I always thought that was the most popular way of deployment, it took me 20mins to draw that picture, so you mean the only difference is that the pilot chute is the one who pulls the pin out thanks to the airstream?

I dont know man but from a newbie perspective, if you pull the pilot chute to the air in a lazy way it might not inflate(PC in tow) and not have enough force to take the pin out resulting in a total malfunction.

Anyway the way I drew the picture is the way I always thought the parachutes were deployed, you have 2 oppotunities, you can pull with enough strength to take the pin out, if that fails, just pray that the airstream does it for you.

Read Deployment Initiators FMI.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[iluvtofly 0]

First, about the pictures, the person above is right. the airstream is what pulls the pin. That is the entire point of the PC. It is to grab the air and pull the bridal which then pulls out the pin.

Now, onto gear. As a newbie myself I'm not about to give advice as to which rig is right for you. As was stated earlier everyone has their own opinion. It is very regional as to what is popular where. At my home DZ pretty much everyone has a vector or infinity. However, today I went to a different DZ in a different part of the country and it looked to me as if most people had a mirage. You will see alot more voodoo's out west than you will here in the east (from what I've seen and been told). It's all about what bells and whistles you want on it and what price you want to pay. I agree that you should get a paragear catalog (can be gotten from www.para-gear.com) That will inform you as to what a majority of your choices are. Talk to people at your DZ. Get their opinions. Just remember, THEY ARE OPINIONS ONLY!. No one rig is perfect for everyone. Once again, as stated earlier, not everyone loves Fords. Just do lots of research and ask lots of questions. Do a search on the forums for rigs that you are thinking of as possiblities. That's what I did, and now I'm just waiting to get my rig in so I can start using it. Also, don't be afraid to buy used. They're just as good as brand new (in most cases). Just be sure that you have a rigger that you know and trust inspect them before you purchase them.

Remember, I'm just a newbie giving advice based on what I just recently went through in buying my own gear. Read what everyone has to say and make your choice based on that. You will get hundreds of different opinions, the hard part is decided whos opinion you are going to listen too.

[Froggy 0]

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Anyway the way I drew the picture is the way I always thought the parachutes were deployed, you have 2 oppotunities, you can pull with enough strength to take the pin out, if that fails, just pray that the airstream does it for you.

Wow! I always thought you don't have to pray for that, but I guess I better learn at least one prayer (which one is the best, BTW?), 'cause I definitely don't want to be opening my container by pulling the pin by hand!

No, seriously, you are supposed to THROW your PC, not to "pull it in a lazy manner", and the physics will do the rest. But I better STFU, since there are many much more experienced people around here who can provide better explanations... MakeItHappen...

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We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

[DSE 5]

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Damn really? I always thought that was the most popular way of deployment, it took me 20mins to draw that picture, so you mean the only difference is that the pilot chute is the one who pulls the pin out thanks to the airstream?

I dont know man but from a newbie perspective, if you pull the pilot chute to the air in a lazy way it might not inflate(PC in tow) and not have enough force to take the pin out resulting in a total malfunction.

Dunno about your rig, but given the length of most bridles, your arms can't be long enough to pull the pin on your own. Yes, you have enough strength to pull it, strength isn't the issue.
If the bridle is short enough for your arm to pull it to full length, then you have a serious likelihood of the PC being caught in your burble.

[autoset 0]

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Dunno about your rig, but given the length of most bridles, your arms can't be long enough to pull the pin on your own. Yes, you have enough strength to pull it, strength isn't the issue.
If the bridle is short enough for your arm to pull it to full length, then you have a serious likelihood of the PC being caught in your burble.

No man, if you wanted to deploy the canopy the way I drew it in the pic, the pin placement in the bridle would be the only difference (pin placed closer to the pilot chute), it has nothing to do with bridle length.

Anyway why do you think the kind of deployment in the pic wouldn't work? It would be the exact same motion as if the PC alone pulled the pin but you are doing it with your hand (2 steps in 1 movement), you should just be careful not to wear a watch or anything which could make the PC to not leave your hand causing a horseshoe.

Hey I'm just a newbie with too many ideas don't blame me

[wilcox 0]

-Canopies are measured by square feet.

-There is not very big difference in price between different rigs. Which rig is best? Different people prefer different rigs. You will get many different opinions when you ask which rig is best.

-The reserve and main canopy are usually about the same size. Sometimes the reserve is bigger, sometimes the main canopy is bigger.

-There are some variations on the details in the deployment methods, but these are the most common for students:

aff students and freefalling s/l students:
1. You pull the pilot chute out of the boc and throw it into clean air. It catches air and pulls the pin, the container opens. The bag is pulled out of the container.

2. You pull a ripcord and the container opens. A spring loaded pilot chute that was packed inside the container jumps out and catches air. The bag is pulled out of the container.

s/l students on their first jumps:
3. The jumpmaster assists the deployment, JAD/IAD. The jumpmaster takes the pilot chute ouf of the boc inside the airplane. At the same time the student leaves the door the jumpmaster throws the pilot chute out in the air. The pilot chute catches air and pulls the bag.

4. A static line is a attached to the airplane and in the other end to the pin. When the student jumps out of the airplane, the pin is pulled, the container opens. The spring loaded pilot chute jumps out. It is usually attached with velcro to the static line, so the pilot chute gets some extra help to start pulling the bag out of the container.

[wilcox 0]

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-Is this the standard opening sequence in most parachutes? Do students use this type of deployment?
Please see Pictures:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1225/openingsequence1uh7.png

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/957/openingsequence2ts5.png

What's shown on the second picture (top part of it) is a good chance of getting a horseshoe malfunction... You got the main idea right, but the pin shouldn't get pulled from the closing loop until the PC is in the airstream, inflated and at the bridle stretch. Your pic shows it being pulled by the bridle while the PC is still in your hand -- BAD thing...

Damn really? I always thought that was the most popular way of deployment, it took me 20mins to draw that picture, so you mean the only difference is that the pilot chute is the one who pulls the pin out thanks to the airstream?

I dont know man but from a newbie perspective, if you pull the pilot chute to the air in a lazy way it might not inflate(PC in tow) and not have enough force to take the pin out resulting in a total malfunction.

Anyway the way I drew the picture is the way I always thought the parachutes were deployed, you have 2 oppotunities, you can pull with enough strength to take the pin out, if that fails, just pray that the airstream does it for you.

The deployment method shown in your picture is sometimes used in crw, called russian pullout: the pilot chute is packed in the BOC but you pull the pin before you release the pilot chute.

You can also do a search on "Pull out" to learn more about regular pull out when you have the pilot chute packed inside the container. For this system you have a pud attachted to a line, this line is attached to both the pin and the pilot chute.

Attachment shows how the different pull out pilot chutes and their handles looks like (pic #1-3) compared to a throw out (pic #4)

[piisfish 140]

unlike some people giving you advice, you already write "bridle" correctly, and not bridal.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Yossarian 0]

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4. A static line is a attached to the airplane and in the other end to the pin. When the student jumps out of the airplane, the pin is pulled, the container opens. The spring loaded pilot chute jumps out. It is usually attached with velcro to the static line, so the pilot chute gets some extra help to start pulling the bag out of the container.

theres also a s/l method (that i used) where the pin and the bag are attached to the s/l, and as the jumper leaves the aicraft the pin is pulled and the bag extracted from the container, with the bag coming away at linestretch, much like a freebag, the pin and bag are left attached to the a/c

[riggerrob 643]

Throw-out (curved pin, Spandex pouch on bottom of container, etc.) is 85 or 90 percent of the market.

Pull-out is maybe 5 percent of the market.

[riggerrob 643]

Yossarian just described "direct bag" static-line, a system developed over 60 years ago - by the British Royal Air Force - and still the most reliable way to deploy canopies. 99 percent of military static-line jumps are still done with direct bag.

[riggerrob 643]

4. A static line is a attached to the airplane and in the other end to the pin. When the student jumps out of the airplane, the pin is pulled, the container opens. The spring loaded pilot chute jumps out. It is usually attached with Velcro to the static line, so the pilot chute gets some extra help to ...

[DSE 5]

My mistake in reading your post. I thought you were trying to figure out a safer way of pulling your pin, not trying to design a new system.
The system you describe more or less has existed in older systems, I don't know if there are current manufacturers using this design.
There is an advantage to having the PC be clear before pulling the pin; it's going to be grabbing good air already, which raises confidence that the Dbag and lines will deploy properly.

[riggerrob 643]

The biggest canopies are 500 square foot military tandems.
The smallest canopies are the sub-100s worn by professional pond swoopers. The smallest canopy - that has been landed without injury - was a 49 square-footer. Mind you that was by a professional test pilot and occurred at the end of a year-long test program.

On a practical note: most sport jumpers use parachutes in the 190 to 120 square foot range. Size is determined by weight and experience. The smallest canopies are only jumped by young men who "feel the need for speed."
A common question is" "Does this canopy make my ass look fast?"

How do you know if your parachute is too small?
... by the sound of your femur breaking!
(Sick humor)

[piisfish 140]

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The smallest canopy - that has been landed without injury - was a 49 square-footer.

39 wasn't it ?

I agree with the rest.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[wilcox 0]

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The biggest canopies are 500 square foot

There are much bigger canopies! They are very heavy though

[shermanator 4]

largest thus far is 9,000 square feet, and can hold 30,000 lbs.

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[Froggy 0]

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The deployment method shown in your picture is sometimes used in crw, called russian pullout: the pilot chute is packed in the BOC but you pull the pin before you release the pilot chute.

Interesting! I've never heard of this (among the whole lot of other things, I am sure

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We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...